Cylinder -vs- piston & rings….

[viclioce]

My frustration levels went high tonight with this 03 Wombat motor…

I got my snap ring tool from Danny when I got home last night. With the correct sized tool, the snap ring went on right away. So I finished the countershaft, YEAY!!! And I put the bottom end back together with Yamabond & all the new screws.

I had put this motor together once before, but it turned out I forgot about the bent control shaft. Cylinder went on easily the last time….

But, I had to pull it apart again because I forgot about the bent control rod. “Forget” you say?!?! Well I had bent the control rod so I could push it back into the countershaft, when I was tearing the motor apart for its rebuild. And I forgot about the bent control rod because I had been waiting for parts, it was all the way in the countershaft….blah blah blah. Yep, I know, shouldn’t have been an excuse…

So my correct snap ring tool for the smaller control shaft snap ring arrived, and was on the ground at my front door last night. Birthday party for my 7 year old granddaughter kept us busy most of the day, so I started in on the motor re-assembly after we got home.

After re-assembling the bottom end, I put the lower cylinder gasket on and proceeded to ATTEMPT to slide the cylinder over the piston.

“WTF!!! Why was it being a pain in the butt trying to get the cylinder to slide smoothly and straight over the piston/rings? It went on easy enough last time. Same cylinder, same piston, same rings. Nothing different.

I fought with it over an hour and finally said enough is enough. Frustrations were mounting. I figured I’d go at it again tomorrow. I even heard Ed’s voice whispering “Slow down, you’ll……” Well you all know…. I even tried my old trick of using 2 connected hose clamps to act as a ring depressor. NADA!!!!!

I would appreciate any suggestions anyone wants to offer for a cylinder install over a piston/ring assembly. Even with a dowel to hold the piston relatively straight & plenty of 2 stroke oil on the cylinder walls, I just couldn’t get it to slide down over the piston. I stopped because I didn’t want to damage anything. Hoping that maybe tomorrow it will act like the CW pipe did when I couldn’t get it to line up one day snd tgd next day it just dropped right in place…..

Thanks for letting me ramble on………. Victor

[Bullfrog]

You know what's coming right? Slow down etc. ??? You disassembled a previously assembled top end in order to change out the control shaft??? The control shaft and all control shaft components can be changed out with the engine in the frame . . . no need for top end disassembly. Buuuut, we need to win the battle at hand so . . . I saw no mention of using the U-shaped piston support tool during the procedure. I won't even attempt sliding the top end on without one (following my own rule, slow down etc.) The piston support tool lets the piston move down till it rests on the tool, then the piston is held in proper alignment with the bore centerline (no rocking). With piston pretty much aligned/immobilized you can concentrate on the Braille operation of "feeling" that the top ring is properly lined up with its anti-rotation pin while compressing it with your fingers and gently lowering the cylinder. When you "just" get the cylinder properly slid over the top ring, you then switch to bottom ring alignment and compression in the ring groove (by Braille) and slide the cylinder down a bit more. Then lift the piston/cylinder as unit just a teensy amount and slide out the piston support tool. Finally, lower the piston/cylinder as a unit, carefully aligning the cylinder spigot with the case bore . . . and yer done. (Whew!) This IS a ticklish operation, requiring "feel" for proper positioning of each ring as you go. NOTE: I highly recommend NOT using hose clamps as ring compressors, it is just too easy to scratch/gouge the piston.

You can make one of these tools out of wood.
Ed

[viclioce]

“ I saw no mention of using the U-shaped piston support tool…”

Hmmm. I’ve never seen this or heard of it before. I usually do the same thing by inserting a pencil or wooden dowel under the piston. Provides the same kind of function. Last night, I used a dowel. But I’ll go ahead and make one out of wood for now and then make one out of metal later. I can see how this would hold the piston in a better position.

Usually it isn’t necessary for me to do anything more than slip a wooden pencil in under the piston. It allows the piston to be straightened up by lowering the piston down to the pencil and being attached to the crank gives it enough tension that the piston straightens up.

But something like that will steady both sides of the piston. So I’ll give it a try. Any tool which makes the job easier is always welcome. Thx. Victor

[viclioce]

OK. Just decided to walk out to garage. Found my new piston leveling tool. Cylinder dropped right on, like it was never any problem! Just put the handles on either side of the piston rod…. Victor

[Al Harpster]

That "U" shape tool looks like just the thing.

I've done it the hard way too many times.

I'll have one on hand next time.

[viclioce]

Al. My channel lock pliers provided the same function and even added a little vinyl padding. I was set to make myself at least a wooden version of Ed’s steel, U shaped tool.

Then I realized the handles of my channel locks would provide a very similar surface upon which to rest the piston. Worked like a charm.

Didn’t have to make a new tool, repurposed an existing one & wont have to keep track of an additional tool! Victor

[Bullfrog]

Aluminum (not steel).

But the idea to use cushion handled Channel Lock pliers for a piston support tool is a nifty one!

Ed

[viclioce]

Thx Captain! And aluminum it is… Victor

[viclioce]

Ed. I’ve watched Kelly’s video in changing the springs & ball inside the counter shaft with the motor in the bike. But, Kelly had some highly specialized tools for that procedure!

Are these tools readily available to buy? Is there a resource for them? Or are they custom made and it’s up to the person who wants them to make or get someone to make for them?

If they are available to buy, where are they obtained? If they require a machinist to make them, who has the specs for the tools? Victor

[Bullfrog]

Kelly has some special tools to make the job easier . . . but only one is required to do the control shaft component work, and that is the proper size snap ring tool. The work could be completed alongside the trail (NOT a good idea, but it could be done) so long as a refill of transmission oil, the necessary parts and the snap ring tool was on hand. All the other special tools Kelly used are optional (very helpful, but optional). I'm not aware of a current source for the snap ring tools . . . and so far as I know, Kelly's tools are "one offs".
Ed

[taber hodaka]

Victor I will show you how to make one at hodaka days or put it in the next resonator. Clarence.

[viclioce]

Put it in the Resonator Clarance. I can make one from wood. But my channel locks work just as well. Victor

[taber hodaka]

I was referring to the transmission tool. Clarence

[gregg_floren]

I would like to see that too.

Gregg

[viclioce]

Oh sorry Clarence. I thought you meant Ed’s U shaped holder! I’d love to see how to make those!

Ed. I have both snap ring tools now. Paul Schwarting gave me his early one when I picked up his remaining Hodaka frames/parts. And I asked Danny Cooke to make me the thinner one for the later models. But he had one of the ones Paul used to sell & sent me that one. So now, I have both.

As far as someone to make them, there may be something forthcoming with that in the near future. Victor