Engine haves torque ?

[taz]

I have searched but found nothing , Is there a torque for the engine halves , clutch nut , and the two gear nuts ?? What do you use fore a good sealant for the halves ?? Thank you

[Zyx]

I use Honda bond 4 or the Yamaha equivalent. For the screws I use an impact driver and brass hammer.

[Dale]

Some of your torque values are listed in the Model Specifications found on the Strictly Hodaka web site. Select your model under the "Shop By Schematics" and then select "View Model Specifications". If you don't find all that you need there, please ask again.

[taz]

Some of your torque values are listed in the Model Specifications found on the Strictly Hodaka web site. Select your model under the "Shop By Schematics" and then select "View Model Specifications". If you don't find all that you need there, please ask again.

Like I said I was asking because I can not find it and am not interested in another manual I have two already without the info I'm asking , Please if you do not have correct info then please do not reply ! I am trying hard to do this and have another Hodaka restored ... I am sorry if I ask too many questions but thought this is what this great forum was about . people helping people .... If there is a question that I know the answer to I would tell that person not send them on a wild goose chase that I have al ready been on ... Thank you and no disrespect....... Taz

[taz]

I use Honda bond 4 or the Yamaha equivalent. For the screws I use an impact driver and brass hammer.

Thank you sir , good advice !

[BrianZ]

For the model 94:

The clutch nut and primary gear nut are 250 in pounds.

The flywheel nut is 170 in pounds.

I use a 1/4 in ratchet with a hardened steel bit to tighten the case screws. No torque is specified.

Brian

[dcooke007]

I use 60 inch pounds torque on the 6mm x 1.0 pitch engine screws.

Danny

[Dale]

Some of your torque values are listed in the Model Specifications found on the Strictly Hodaka web site. Select your model under the "Shop By Schematics" and then select "View Model Specifications". If you don't find all that you need there, please ask again.

Like I said I was asking because I can not find it and am not interested in another manual I have two already without the info I'm asking , Please if you do not have correct info then please do not reply ! I am trying hard to do this and have another Hodaka restored ... I am sorry if I ask too many questions but thought this is what this great forum was about . people helping people .... If there is a question that I know the answer to I would tell that person not send them on a wild goose chase that I have al ready been on ... Thank you and no disrespect....... Taz

Taz,
Sorry that you took my response the way that you did. There is a ton of useful information in the specs and I simply pointed out where they can be found without any wild goose chase. How was I to know that you had already been on one. I really can not read minds. Good luck with your build, I will not bother you again.
Dale

[Zyx]

Danny,

Far as I know there are no specs for engine half screws (although I believe there are generic specs based on screw size), but I always figured an impact tool probably put double the count that I could do with a hand held screw driver. What I am curious to know is how you measure torque when applied to a Phillips head screw, since the design of the driver causes the bit to slip out of the screw rather than hold torque from the tool, hence the impact driver. Could you give us a photo tour of how you do this? I have conjured up images of using a drill press to apply pressure while using a torque wrench, socket, and Phillips driver to drive the screws, but such an approach seems too much like work. I would be curious to know how you do it. Thanks.

[dcooke007]

GMC,

In the back of the Hodaka Workshop Manual, mdl 94 and combat wombat, there is a general torque spec table. The 6 x 1.0 specified torque is 55 - 76 inch pound.

As for torqueing the screws I use a good #3 phillips bit and a click type torque wrench. After using a screw driver and impact driver I can understand why you would think it would be difficult to tighten the screws other wise. The addition of the lever effect of the torque wrench, a good fitting bit and good condition screw heads makes the task very easy. With the machined surfaces of the center engine cases I like the advantage of torqueing the screws down in stages rather than going straight to 60 inch pounds. Of course an impact driver is used for dis-assembly.

I will get a picture for you tomorrow.

Danny

[jleewebb]

A JIS screwdriver won't "cam out" as readily as a regular phillips bit, even on phillips head screws...

[thrownchain]

I have a T handle phillips head screw driver that I use and probably go past the spec most times, not hard to do as you can lean into it, and put some good torque on it.

Yamaha and Honda both have a sealer as well as permatex.

[rlkarren]

As for torqueing the screws I use a good #3 phillips bit and a click type torque wrench. ...
Danny

So that's how you do it!... when talking to DG, he recommended the case halves be torqued at 5 - 6 lb/ft, (which is the same as 60 - 72 lb/in), I was thinking I was going to have to find some hex screws. I do have a habit of making things more difficult that it needs to be,...

I like the idea of torquing the screws in the case halves because I really don't think two, or three or more, whacks with a brass hammer on an impact driver is very precise.

Thanks!

Roger

[Zyx]

Precision is easier than accuracy. Tactile sense is repeatable, but the actual value achieved requires a scale.

I understand that a JIS driver and complementary screw don't cam out like the Phillips does, but the question is whether the screws we have these days are JIS. I don't think they are.

[taber hodaka]

Why create a problem where there isn't one? With hand tightened screws using a handle about 2 inches wide I have never had one screw come loose and have always had to remove them with a hammer driver. Looking for problems in all the wrong places, When I ordered my first order of hodaka in 1965 and one needed repaired there was nobody around to answer questions as most people had not even seen a hodaka. Tapered screws really lock in. Taz Dale is such a knowledgeable helpful person please don't discourage others from trying to be helpful. No response necessary. Clarence

[Bullfrog]

A good (new?) #3 Phillips screw driver from Craftsman with a standard screw driver handle will (with a firm two hand grip) apply all the torque needed to tighten the case screws. Other methods with more precision and accuracy and repeatability amongst the screws are to be admired (but aren't necessary).

However, using a well worn #3 Phillips screw driver . . . or worse yet (and wayeeeee more common) a well worn #2 screw driver on the case screws is certainly "bad practice".

Ed

[MWL]

I've never used a hammer impact to tighten a Phillips head screw or anything else for that matter.

[dcooke007]

"Much to do about nothing" I think.

Danny

[hodakamax]

OK, Dr. Science wants to get in on this discussion. I always tighten case screws with a ratchet with my hand as shown. I've never had a problem in any way in 50 years. After reading all this I did several tests checking myself with a torque wrench and all examples were in the 55-76 inch pounds recommended and fairly consistent on the low side at 55-60 range. If you are new at this a torque wrench would probably be in order but common sense has worked well for all of us for many years. I personally would avoid using a hammer driver to tighten anything because of the unknown torque pulses.

Dr. Science and Max's opinion.

PS--This reminds of a story from years past when I owned a Mazda pick-up. I picked up a factory oil filter from the Mazda dealer and installed it. I looked on the box for tightening instructions and it clearly read "Tighten until tight enough." This might apply to our case screws.

[hodakamax]

One more silly torque story. I fiddled with VW Beetles in the 70s and had to remove the rear axle nut on one. It was tight. I used a 1" drive break-over and stood on it--no luck. I then added a 5 foot pipe and finally broke it loose. On re-installing I checked the manual and it listed something like 380 foot- pounds, way beyond my torque wrench. I then did a little math. I weighed about 165 (at the time) and I needed 380 at one foot. 380 divided by 165 said that I needed to stand on the pipe at 2.375 feet out. All this done and the castle nut didn't line up with holes in the axle. Back to the manual and I quote,"If the holes do not line up for the cotter pin, continue tightening until it does." This goes back to the story above where you " tighten until tight enough."

OK, I'll leave you all alone for awhile, I do have work to do.

Maxie

[Zyx]

With arthritis and a reconstructed wrist, my ability to grasp and drive a hand held screwdriver is , shall we say, diminished, whereas my ability to regulate the use of power amplifying tools has not. Don't assume that because I use an impact driver that the screws are over tightened. As far as verifying torque on a screw, or a bolt or nut, that has been tightened, a torque wrench will not give you the answer you are looking for. When using a torque wrench, the fastener being driven is in motion, and force stops when the value you want is reached. To restart that same fastener, either to tighten or to loosen, requires more force than the value at which you ceased motion because you have to overcome static friction.

Bottom line is that we all seem to have different approach to the same problem, and everyone's approach works.

[hodakamax]

Ah, but Dr. Science is not easily fooled on measuring torque. He not only took readings tightening and loosening screws, he noted rotation of the screws on both torque wrench on hand tightening and loosening and taking many averages and comparisons along the way. He estimated that he was within plus or minus 5%.

And hey, I forgot to mention that after using a hammer-driver for years, this little rechargeable impact driver is really slick for removing case and side case screws. (But not tightening them). It's also cool for for removing things like clutch nuts without having to use a holding tool.

Maxie

[Zyx]

i will be tearing down my old engine this winter and will try using a torque wrench to reset the case screws. Depending on my impression of the result I may use that approach, or may use it with a spot of blue loctite. up to this point I have never used thread lock on case screws, but if I am going to set them at a lower value than I am comfortable with, I may just guarantee the result.

[hodakamax]

AZ, you've wrenched enough in your life to know by feel how tight things should be. I'd probably let you put my cases together and I'm sure you had the feel with your driver method. Of course the torque wrench is a little more precise and repeatable but I think we all have our methods that fit the requirements. A fun discussion anyway!

Maxie

[dcooke007]

GMC,

I can assure you with a good #3 screw driver bit you will have no problem using a torque wrench to tighten the case screws. I too have some difficulties with arthritis and my grip is not what it use to be. The lever / torque wrench is just easier all around.

There are other reasons I use a torque wrench to tighten the screws on the engines I repair /restore. Most of those engines are for other people....most of the time a long distance away. I don't have the luxury of just returning to my little work shop and correcting any issues. I also apply a very small dab of blue Loctite for the same reasons.

Other methods that achieve the same results are fine by me. I learned a long time ago there are usually more than one way to "skin a cat".

Danny