250 ignition

[michael_perrett]

I have studied the 250 flywheels to find the portion that "trips" the CDI coil. I see nothing different on all the inside of the flywheel. Does anyone know the reason for this, or am I missing something inside the flywheel?

Mike Perrett

[racerclam]

What are you trying to accomplish with this endeavor ? Its all magnet position .

Rich

[michael_perrett]

There are four magnets in the flywheel. They pass over the two lighting coils and the "piggyback" ignition coils. I am assuming all four magnets work on energizing all the coils. The one coil on the piggyback, ignition system, must generate the power for the ignition system, while the smaller "piggyback" coil must be for the timing.
Again, no indicator of a "sensor" on the flywheel.
Mike Perrett

[michael_perrett]

Will the human mind ever discover the working process of the 250 Hodaka ignition system? One can only hope that this vast knowledge will be found in the next 100 years. Until then, only speculation will be with us as we ride the 250's down the road.
Maybe if I purchase one of those new Hodaka chairs, a bright light will appear and the answer will dawn.
Mike Perrett

[admin]

What is in that Oil City water?? The Captain called the other day and asked what I was smoking?? I think I told him it was just the air coming from Northwest PA.
Thanks for the smiles Mike!
Paul

[Bullfrog]

I would need either 1) the rotor and stator from a 250 SL or 2) whatever the winds blew in that Paul apparently inhaled the other day to be fully enabled to create a book length theory to reply to Mike's question. In the absence of both of those items, you'll get a short and rather un-inspiring response from me. A SWAG follows (well, maybe it is only a WAG). SWAG = Scientific Wild A-- Guess.

The black box circuitry MAY "read" the sine-wave output of the sensor/trigger coil to identify any one of the following situations as the trigger command:
Output at a given voltage when voltage is rising
Output at a given voltage when voltage is falling
Maximum positive voltage following rise
Minimum negative voltage following drop


Triggering "spark" from any of the above items would seem to call for spark twice per engine revolution with a 4 magnet flywheel . . . but the "wasted" spark would happen at or near bottom dead center and have no effect.

DISCLAIMER: Did I mention this is a SWAG? (and that I might be wrong about that . . . it might only be a WAG)

Mike, have you hooked up a timing light? IS there spark twice per rev??

Ed

[michael_perrett]

Probably will not have the engine ready for turn over for about 3 weeks. I have thought about the wasted spark idea 'cause it is used on other engines. Ed, it may be like you stated in your four theories. I initially was working on installing a 250 Suzuki TS points ignition system, but the Suzuki flywheel tapered hole is too small. I like the points system for dependability, considering the age of the Hodaka 'CDI units.
Mike Perrett

[admin]

Mike/Ed couldn't we use a 175SL points ignition ( backing plate, coils, points etc..) on the 250 if the 250 flywheel was used and the upper coil was changed out?
I have not done it nor considered it until I read Mike's post.
The fog is lifting over Sandgate:-)
Paul

[Dale]

Perhaps this existing article will help explain???
This link will take you to Strictly Hodaka Hot Tips and when there, select Capacitor Discharge Ignitions.
http://www.strictlyhodaka.com/Articles.asp?ID=252

Ed, perhaps you wrote this article? Anyways, it comes with pictures...
Dale

[Bullfrog]

Thanks Dale! Yeah, I may have put that article together way back when. Note that the article does seem to confirm that my previous post was indeed a SWAG and not a WAG. (Whew!)

Ed

[michael_perrett]

Thanks Dale for the information. It is quite helpful. That along with Ed's theory of voltage change measurements might be the answer. If so, the dual spark might be what is happening.

As for using the 175 stator, it will fit, but the 250 flywheel does not have a camshaft. The 175 flywheel will not interchange due to the smaller 175 crankshaft size. RATS. I might try another avenue for a 250 points system. Gotta have a unique bike, I said the bike, not the rider.
Mike

[Bullfrog]

Um, Mike, no change is needed for the rider to be unique!
(I still grin when I think about your ride to Hodaka Days on the 175!!)

Ed

[racerclam]

I have put a timing light on my 250 but IM using a TM 250 ignition stator and rotor as well as a super combat black box. And It dont spark twice. And worth mention the stock Hodaka 250 gold cdi box is stupid as it advances at upper RPM and so does the Suzuki Box . That is NOT! what a 2 stroke wants especially the 250 that has a poor cooling head. Thats why I use the super combat box since it retards on the top. And points will only give you a static timing setting tha is not condusive to performance . Not to mention condensers are not all that dependable .

Rich

[michael_perrett]

The Suzuki TM 250 has an internal flywheel, not like the external TS 250 flywheel. Static timing (points system) does not bother me as for performance, since this bike will already have enough power, which is mainly stock, to run at least 2,000 miles without any problems.
In all my years of running gasoline power units, as well as vehicle engines, I have had only one failed condenser.
Mike Perrett

[racerclam]

Your lucky I have had many condenser failures on bikes but nor on cars. Im aware that the Ts 250 has flywheel , I was just informing you about the timing differences since the CDI box is interchangable between them all , be it rotor or flywheel and that give more room to get want you want.

Rich