Shifting Help!!!

[viclioce]

I’ve been working on a 94 Wombat. I thought I had this bike all finished. Took it out for a test ride around the neighborhood. 1st & 2nd gear seem to work fine. However in 3rd & 4th gear, there was an intermittent but repeating slippage as I rode down the street.

I took the motor back out, inspected the gears on the counter shaft, which appeared to be fine, and rebuilt the Counter shaft assembly. Reassembled motor but problem persisted.

Alan sent me a countershaft which was rebuilt by his machinist. Pulled motor again and replaced countershaft assembly. Put motor back together and before I could move the motor back into the frame, the circlip came off the control rod and the inner countershaft pieces started spilling out of the motor.

So, I pulled the shaft out again, reassembled the pieces, in order, and put a new control rod circlip on. Reassembled motor and put it back in bike. Went out for a test ride and it continued to slip in and out of 3rd &4th gear.

Ordered new control shaft springs & washers, a couple of new control shaft spring stoppers and 5 new circlips for the end of the countershaft. When the new parts arrived, I pulled the motor again, replaced all but the ball receiver, and reassembled everything & put the motor back in the bike.

Now on this next test ride it not only slipped in 3rd & 4th gear but it started slipping in 2nd gear as well! I’ve ordered a couple more new ball receivers. If this doesn’t make a difference I don’t know what to do to stop the slipping in 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears! Clutch has all new plates & has been blueprinted. I’ve replaced everything except the countershaft body & the actual countershaft gears. I even put new ball bearings in the countershaft, even though the old ones appeared to be fine.

Any suggestions? I’m open to any help which may be provided. From what I’ve read in the past, this can be a pretty common problem with ball & spring shifter assemblies. But, I thought rebuilding the countershaft would take care of the slippage????? Victor

[Bullfrog]

Sorry, I don't "get" what is meant by slippage in this situation. But there are some (hopefully helpful) comments below.

Why remove the engine for replacement of control shaft components? Every component which fits on the control shaft can be replaced with the engine in the frame and without losing the transmission oil in about 30 minutes to an hour (faster with practice).

Once you have installed known good components - control shaft springs, ball receiver, snap ring retainer and snap ring (and made sure the snap ring is fully seated down "in" the retainer) - then any remaining shifting problems MUST relate to the shifter case or shifter mechanism (excessive wear, out of adjustment or both). It sounds like you have replaced those components several times, and the problem has not been cured. So it seems to be a pretty sure thing that those components are not part of the problem - something else is at the root of the problem.
Ed

[viclioce]

OK. I will try a substitute shifter cover first. I’ll report back. Victor

[olddogs]

The gears don't move, only constantly rotate freely, unless the control shaft locks the balls in place on a selected gear by the means of the ball receiver. I think the slipping you are experiencing are the balls slipping on and off the center line of the ball receiver. Worn shift cover components can allow enough in and out of control shaft play for the balls to be jumping on and off. The springs allow some side to side cushion of movement of the ball receiver to keep from jamming or splitting the counter shaft balls when they engage a gear, .I have had engines with bent control shafts and a case full of counter shafts balls split in half., As mentioned, try a different cover.

[olddogs]

Do a quick check of the shifter sliding pin and the grove in the control shaft it fits into. I have seen this shift pin worn in half,

[viclioce]

You guys! It was the shift cover!!! I substituted a different Wombat shift cover and no more gear slippage in any gear! I was really beating a dead horse with this one!!!

A great big Thank you to Captain Ed and Olddogs for pointing me in the right direction! I hope I can rebuild this shift cover properly so it can still be used! As in the words to an old Barry Manilow song, “….somewhere down the road…” Victor

[dirty_rat]

Probably easiest to just ship the case to California Hodaka and let the expert rebuild it. That way you know it is done right the first time and will last a long time. I always send questionable case to them to be rebuilt.

[viclioce]

Dirty_rat, I have a machinist I prefer to use. I’m not in favor of spending what they charge. My machinist will charge $67 USD to repair this cover and put a new bushing on it! He lives close to Alan and I just mail it to Alan & Alan mails it back. This one had already been sent off. Putting the rest of the parts in is just a little bit of time. I have plenty of time! Victor

[Bullfrog]

Vic,

When you do the assembly of the shifter components in the rebuilt shifter case, if you'll spend a bit of time psyching out how each piece interacts with the next in normal operation, you'll move further along the continuum from "grasshopper" to fully qualified Hodaka Mechanic. You have come far . . . there is a little way to go . . .

Ed

[MTrat]

This whole scenario reminds us of the old maxim of the 'known good' method of solving mechanical issues. A time honored trick for isolating problems.

[viclioce]

Captain Ed & OldDogs! Thanks for the guidance. I’ve been going “sl o w e r” and taking my time. The first issue of the gear slippage is corrected. The bike was delivered today! Thank God, I can finally move on!

Now I have my Blue Wombat. This one won’t shift at all, won’t even go into gear. First thing I will do is remove the shifter cover and try another known good. If that solves it, I will then try a shift cover rebuild. I have all the parts needed.

I also got my 98 cylinder back from Terry, it’s been bored to .010 over. I can start rebuilding the bottom end on that bike. Too cold to paint the cylinder unless it warms back up to at least 50 degrees. But taking my time because I don’t have heat in my garage.

Arthritis is also attacking my thumbs. My grip is starting to go on me. There are days I can barely turn a nut on a bolt.

I’m also going to be taking my wife in for spinal fusion surgery, on January 13th. She had lumbar rods & screws installed back in 2011. Now they decided what they were doing 10-15 years ago wasn’t right and they have to do it again! The surgeon says it will take all day, an 8 hour surgery.

So please keep my wife, Lydia, in your thoughts & prayers. I know I’m going to be really busy after that, just nursing her back to health. Wish me luck with both!!! Victor

[Bullfrog]

I'd suggest a quick check to see if the control shaft will move "in" and "out" on your blue Wombat. You can check this by hand with no shift cover installed - engine OFF only. If chain is connected, rock the rear wheel back and forth to provide some gear movement to allow the ball receiver to push the balls "out" into the countershaft gear "hollows" as the control shaft is pushed in or pulled out. If you can't engage gears this way . . . a shift cover won't work either. (did I mention, engine OFF?)

Hope all goes well on the medical front.

Ed

[viclioce]

Ed, I figured it out today. The foot change ratchet plunger spring washer fell out when I was putting things back together. So the plunger spring wasn’t making the plunger maintain pressure against the ratchet.

I found another washer and installed it between the spring & the zurk fitting. That was all it took. That washer is so small I just missed it falling out. I’ve ordered a couple of new plunger springs and 5 new washers for spares. That will hold me over for a while! Victor

[Bullfrog]

. . . so there is still a need for the occasional application of the rule, "Slow down. You'll go faster." Only occasionally now it seems.
Ed

[viclioce]

Actually, I’ve slowed down a LOT more. Especially in the Winter, because I don’t have heat in the garage. There is little desire to work outside when it’s well below 40*F! Victor