Broken off key

[RoadyToady]

All-
My '75 RT model 99 has the key broken off
in the "on" position of the ignition. I have
an after market push button kill switch
that works great. I have heard this is a
common practice-but why? Is it so you
don't risk losing your key? Or so you don't
accidently turn off your bike? It presents
another situation in that when I went to
hook up a new battery- the leads gave a little
spark and seem to get fairly warm since the
ignition is always on. Do I even need the battery?
Off road use only- headlight would be nice-
but should work via the magneto anyways, right?
Thanks!

[Dale]

I would extract the broken key and get a new key if you don't already have one that will work. There was another post regarding a broken key. Here is a link to that post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=586

I have never heard of breaking off a key on purpose? Guess that could be so, but seems weird to me. With a working key, your battery and lights question are all taken care of. Right? If you can not get that key extracted, then you could source a new switch. They are all the same on the RT's.
Dale

[RoadyToady]

Thanks for the link Dale- I searched and didn't
find it...
I'm not sure if it was on purpose or not- a guy
mentioned it to me at HD'14 and made it sound
like common "practice"- maybe more like just
"common"!
-Rich

[MTRob]

There is a key listed on Ebay #929437 for you switch. Under Hodaka Key
MTRob

[RoadyToady]

Thanks MTRob...

Dumb question... Will a super strong magnet
work? Not sure what the key is made of- I can
use a screwdriver to click ignition to off position-
but kind of a pain!

[MTRob]

What I did was take 2 very small screwdrivers and ground them down to a very fine point and slowly worked it out one side at a time. I also disconnected
the switch and sprayed it with WD40 and slowly hit the top till it moved out and then grabbed it
MTRob

[RoadyToady]

Sounds reasonable... I'll give it a shot!

[Dale]

You can purchase a key right here at Strictly Hodaka. Part number 929437. I would sure do that over Ebay as you will know what you are getting...

I am not sure why the link did not work for you. It seems to work for me. Try searching for "Broke Key".
Dale

[RoadyToady]

Dale...
Sorry, I need to clarify--- I searched for
that topic before I posted (I must have phrased
it weirdly)- your link works fine- a good read indeed...
I will definitely go the SH route- already have
a cart full of goodies picked out!
-Rich

[RoadyToady]

Got it! It only took ~ a minute...
I used a little pick and voila! I'd better get
that key ordered- don't really want to stick it
back in to go for a ride!

[Zyx]

To answer the question you asked, you should not leave the ignition turned "on" constantly, and the kill button only grounds the coil momentarily. It doesn't turn anything off, ignition or otherwise. It only grounds the coil so it won't fire while the button is down. If you have one of the push off - push on kill buttons, the push off position will also only ground the coil and leave everything hot, including the ignition, just grounded so it won't fire through to the plug. Not sure from your statement whether you do or do not have lights. If you don't have lights, you don't need the battery and should remove it. Then it would make no difference if the ignition switch with the broken key worked or didn't. Besides, if the entire keyed shaft is still in there, you should be able to turn the ignition switch on and off with a screwdriver, knife, small coin, or whatever you can get a grip with. I can't imaging a good reason to deliberately break the key off. If the idea was to make the ignition constantly hot, like an MX bike, but run no lights at all, then first, the battery is surplus. All it does is stabilize the lighting system, supporting the lights when idling, and absorbing excess volts when revved.

And the key is, I think, brass but I could be wrong about that. Haven't seen Hodaka key since I lost mine 40 years ago. Even if it is steel, I doubt a magnet would pull the key out but you can always try. I would pry it out as described above.

Rather than just breaking off the key if you want to run hot like a normal dirt bike, remove the lighting and the ignition switch entirely. The "ignition" key only made or broke one connection with regard to the ignition, and functioned much like a kill button, so if the ignition ground wire is disconnected from the switch assembly, you can remove the assembly and forget it. I don't remember if the switch also serves as a fork lock (I don't think so), but if it does, just take the darned thing off if you don't want to run lights or on the street.

One of the tech articles from way back in the 70's discusses turning the Ace 100 into an MX bike. Follow that general discussion for your Road Toad. About the same thing. The only tech suggestion from that article that you can do or not do is the one about replacing the lighting coil with a coil blank. I have no idea what the advantage might have been, and I don't know if there are any around these days anyway. I ran my 100B for 40 years with the lighting coil still installed behind the magneto, and it is still there today. Caused no problems for me. The ignition kill wire that used to run to the key was cut off the switch, wound around the backbone next to the coil, and taped down. It stayed like that through two race seasons and for 38 years thereafter without issue.

So replacing the key is up to you. If you still run with lights, do not leave the switch in the on position as it will kill the battery at the very least. The reason it sparks when you connect or disconnect the lead to the battery is that there is an electrical draw somewhere in the system which the battery recognizes, hence the spark. The battery is tiny by automotive standards, and it doesn't take long to kill it even with only a half amp load. If you are using the lights, you have to use the battery to avoid burning out the light bulbs, and you should replace the key. If you are running no lights as a dirt bike, take the lighting stuff off and truncate the (probably black) wire running to the switch, and remove the switch.

[RoadyToady]

Thanks AZshorty...
I only have a headlight (might come in handy
if a day ride goes too long)-
Do I need the battery for just that?

[Zyx]

Yes, generally. The problem is that the magneto makes voltage that ranges all over the place, something like 8 to 15 volts, and it tends to surge back and forth with throttle on and off. The battery eliminates (or greatly reduces) power pulses to the wiring, so even if your headlight dims a bit when idling, it is only because you went from 14 volts to 12.5, not from 15 down to 8 v. Sometimes the power generation can surge as well when revved hard, and the higher end of the range can blow out the bulb. Or, you can buy a battery eliminator which I believe is just a canister capacitor, and which tends to serve the same function as the battery. If you remember seeing those emergency flashlights that you shake for a minute, and then they give off light for a half hour, those don't use a battery, they use a capacitor to store electric. Even some of today's big rig trucks are using capacitor banks as backup power for cold starts. For your purpose, a good battery eliminator might serve your needs for the occassional use of the headlight.

[rlkarren]

It's actually simpler than that.

If you are only building for Off-Road but still want a headlight...

The green wire from the magneto is your AC power supply for the headlight, (the yellow wire does not put out enough power for a headlight). The green wire output is about 45W.

Run the green and blue wire from the 4-way connector on the wires that are coming from the magneto, straight to the headlight and connect green to positive lead from the Headlight and blue to the ground lead from the headlight. Make sure you place a Voltage Regulator on the green wire because AZ Shorty is correct in that the voltage fluctuates relative to engine RPM and you'll blow that headlight the first time you rev. (In this setup you could actually run a 12v lamp as long as it doesn't exceed 45w, but you'll also need a 12v voltage regulator)

This will eliminate the need for a battery and key switch and you'll have an "headlight always on" condition unless you place an on-off switch on the headlight. The toggle on the bottom of the headlight bucket can do this. Connect green from magneto to green and then brown to positive lead from the headlight. If you have the toggle, you'll see it once you look at it. Then remove everything else or at least disconnect it.

And... If you ditch the key switch, you'll need to replace it with a kill switch. Any kill switch that grounds either black wire from the magneto will work.

And finally, the bad news... your neutral indicator will not work since it operates on battery power. If you wanted to try it on AC, just connect the red wire from the neutral indicator to the green from magneto also.

Roger

[Zyx]

Is a rectifier needed for your setup, or will the DC bulbs live just fine on AC?