Mission impossible

[taber hodaka]

I had said that I was not going to work on another engine of anybody's. But then there comes a special request, well I cannot get the engine apart. You can turn the oil drain plug 20 times but the case is stripped, the spark plug has striped in the head. Some of the side case screws had to be drilled, screw heads are bad, head nuts are mushroomed ( now how do you do that)? The clutch nut locking washer was not bent over, it took big wrenches to break it loose, clutch pinion bushing mushroomed. the flywheel had been hammered on, I could not brake the sprocket nut loose, the motor is on my wooden block on the floor, squeezing the wooden block with my knee's and using a 1/2 breaker, I can't break it loose, my small impact Milwaukee would not work either. I have a 1,500 foot pound Milwaukee impact, I put it on the lowest setting and it did come loose, the nut is at least twice the width as all the newer models. Now I cannot break any of the engine case screws loose, they had been tightened then turned about 1/4 turn more, the small electric impact wanted to spin the wooden block around and only three came loosen. The snap on hammer driver with a 16 ounce hammer is not working. I took a needed break when I came back I drove a tight fitting Philips bit on the bolt/screw and used the 1/2 ratchet pushing it down as hard as I could, all came loose but two. I marked the two screw heads with a ready marker so I could see if they mover at all with the hammer driver, I had to really really whack the hammer driver many times with a 16 ounce hammer and they did finally loosen. Everything looked okay inside but why the engine would not turn over and the piston moved freely was still a question. When I went to remove the main shaft it would not come loose even with the hard plastic hammer, something looked strange, there was something stuck to the shaft, it is the main shaft key. The main shaft and the primary gear are not splined, the key had slipped out during assembly and the primary gear was spinning freely on the main shaft, that is why the engine was not turning over. The seals are as hard as a rock, the The clutch pinion gear and the clutch rotor are not tight and need replaced. With new head, bearings, seals, rings, gaskets bolts and screws I should be good to go. -------------- Clarence

[Dale]

Wow! Just wow!
This engine has made it's way to the right guy!

[Bullfrog]

I feel your pain!

Ed

[viclioce]

The song remains the same... the pain is relieved by the joy of success! Rip into it Mr. Tabor! Victor

[Stever]

I think I might have thrown in the towel on that one, wow. That is very some admirable patience, perseverance and know how. And thanks for posting the step by step.

-Stever

[matt glascock]

Man Clarence. I'm currently operating on your motor's Iowa cousin. I'm trying to build up a spare piston port SR motor and have been working on splitting the cases now for two weeks. I'm going top and bottom with two homegrown case splitting tools which get a turn a day each, heat, acetone/tranny fluid brew, more heat, dead blow hammering, epic potty mouth application, and they have not budged. I've already had to drill off all the case screw heads I couldn't get out with an impact driver. They are not great cases, but they are Rat cases nonetheless. I'm running out of ideas short of sticking a pry bar in the gap and just reefing the $hit out of them just to show them who's boss (don't tempt me). I'd love a great trick right about now. I've never had cases this stubborn before.

[givergas]

before you grab the pry bar how about hard wood wedges , nice 3 inch long tapers , 0 to 3/4 inch use one every 2 inches around the gap in the cases , tap tap tap your way around , finesse it. nice even pressure

[matt glascock]

Hey, that sounds feasible AND safe for the case edges. I'll give it a whirl. Better application of the impact force in a spreading fashion compared to whanging away with a dead blow hammer til I'm blue in the face. Finesse it is. I'll report.

[Dale]

Hey, that sounds feasible AND safe for the case edges. I'll give it a whirl. Better application of the impact force in a spreading fashion compared to whanging away with a dead blow hammer til I'm blue in the face. Finesse it is. I'll report.

Matt, I am wondering if the issue is rust. If your case has a roller bearing for the countershaft then you might have multiple spots where shafts are rusted to bearings. I would drop the whole thing in a 5 gallon bucket of warm oxalic acid for a week and then give it a go.
Dale

[taber hodaka]

I would also take the clutch off, in case it is stuck there also. Send us a picture Clarence

[matt glascock]

Hi Clarence. Clutch is off. In fact the cases are stripped bare. I'm thinking Dale is likely correct in that the internals have fused with rust. There was a clear waterline mark about 1/2 way the cases once I pulled the covers indicating the bike spent a significant stretch of time sitting in flood water which the person who sold the bike told me right up front. I was hoping the oil and crud would've provided some barrier protection but now I'm concerned about the gear sets fused with rust.

Thanks Dale. I am trying to recall when Rat motors switched from bushings to roller bearings. Based on available info, this would be a set of cases from 1970. That would be great if the fusion involves the bearings and not the gear sets. I'm going with the dunk. Thanks guys.

[viclioce]

Were you able to divide the cases, Matt? Victor

[matt glascock]

Hi Victor. They are on day one of a 7-day soak. Rust fusion is the current working theory.

[viclioce]

Best of luck. My Super rat had some internally on the crank and crank bearings, but not enough to prevent case separation. Best of luck. I hope the soak pays off! Victor

[matt glascock]

Thank you Victor. I'm not even going to look at it until a week has lapsed. Fingers crossed.

[taber hodaka]

Well I wanted to clean this engine up so I went to the big shop to use the parts washer. It quit so I added solvent it still didn't work, apart it came cleaned the pump motor and it worked. came back the next morning to do the cleaning, No work. Well I checked the internet and several stores were listed to have pumps in kalispell about 20 miles away. Well after about an hour with nobody stocking them back home I came. I knew I had an old parts washer in the field, I found it and removed the pump and mounted it on the bracket success, but not so fast it would not fit through the hole and into the tank. To heavy for me alone, I got Ron the neighbor to help the next day, We took the parts washer tub off of the 55 gallon barrel and had to cut about 6 inches off the centering ring that keeps it centered in the barrel which works very well. The engine is clean and all apart and ready for new rings seals bearings. Back to the engine shop in the house basement. I had not taken the drain plug out so out it comes (no it doesn't) now I remember it would turn but not screw out, the engine is apart so I could use a punch and hammer to get it to move a little, with good hard hits and turning the drain plug bolt about 1/16 of a turn it should work but no. I thought about it that night and decided I could cut the head off the drain plug? In looking at it this morning I decided not to do that as how do I remove it then. I got out about six chisels the smallest one and drove the smallest one in hard by the head of the nut and then a slight turn with the 14mm wrench I tried all of this several times with no success, Back into the toolbox for the dead blow hammer to the wooden block on the concrete floor, starting with the small chisel I hammered hard until it was about to hit the threads, then I went to the next bigger size after about the fourth chisel one side of the drain plug nut was up about 1/8 of an inch turning slowly with the 14mm it came out, it had been put in at a angle and cross threaded. It had been stripped before and helicoiled?? Now it is resting peacefully at the local machine shop along with a note that says machine a flat surface and fix it. Then I can proceed with the fun part. as true as true can be. -------------- Clarence

[ossa95d]

Wow what a mess Clarence!

[Dale]

Murphy must live somewhere near!

[viclioce]

In the words of Frank Romano, “Holy Crap!” Victor

[gearyoliver]

I am a firm believer in,
"You can't have too much fun!"
This post could make me question my belief.

[taber hodaka]

The Machine shop called and it was fixed. somehow it is fixed with a stainless steel insert and a machined flat surface. $71.79 some of you might think that is expensive but it is quality and it can go back together as it was. The turnaround time was great for me. Now the build will be fun replacing worn parts and some parts that were much improved, The ignition coil will move up under the tank the main shaft and primary gear will also be updated other than that a few worn parts, bolts, screws, seals and rings. There won't be any overtightening on this engine. I think the engine was as close to ruined as one could get. If I knew who did this engine, I would personally give them a free manual and a torque wrench. --------------Clarence

[viclioce]

$71.79 seems rather inexpensive for repairing a cylinder to me! Watching this one closely! Have fun Clarence! Victor

[taber hodaka]

Many parts missing or wrong no left wound control shaft spring. the pinion gear and rotor gear splines are completely shot as loose as a goose they must be very tight. I had a hard time finding a good four speed main shaft with splines. the engine haves are together and sealed. The rings are file fit I still have to do the clutch, shift cover and wireing. I will sand blast the cylinder for paint. The frame, battery box, headlight , frame and chain guard have been sand blasted and are ready for paint. I could not see the control shaft snap ring good enough and couldn't get it removed. My kind wife Jill removed it and reinstalled it for me I am lucky. Jill was a shoe cobbler for 22 years and tougher than nails. About 30 years ago she said she wanted to be at home more with the kids and thought she wanted to go into being a shoe cobbler. I purchased a shoe shop in Hermiston Oregon and picked it up that weekend I hoped she was serious.. Someone has stolen my snap ring tool for the control shaft snap ring I will build a simple replacement. ____________Clarence

[taber hodaka]

Well it sure took a long time didn't it. one third of anything with a bolt was stripped including the handle plate and steering fork bracket . James comes Thursday and I would never be ready, Even with all my parts it is hard to find the right piece now and then. Thank gosh for the magic paint and the hammer. I will take a couple of pictures, James is the most patient understanding person in the world. He will have to find someone to do the seat in Seattle because I cannot find a local. I ordered some rat parts from Terry for the rat I need to finish and the next rat I will start. A priority also is to reed a rat engine for G Falls. They tell me I will be normal in three months what is normal when you are going backwards. I still have 1 new rat engine and wonder if I should tear it down and check seals and do I use the nos 93 super rat expansion chamber or clean up a old one. Boy am I getting chatty time to write a book. Clarence

[Murphy PNW]

Hats off to Clarence for his fine work restoring this Ace 90, frame number A5980, 1965 edition. Clarence detailed his work in this post spending many hours undoing problems caused by unknown prior owner(s).

At Clarence's request, I am posting a few pictures of the completed bike.

Thanks Clarence. Warm Regards, James