vermont registration

[dirtsquirt80]

Does anyone know how long it takes to get your tag and registration back once you send in the paper work to Vermont DMV?? thank's Scott

[pungo]

Took less than two weeks for me but I used a company in PA to process it all.

Will report on my total exp once I get a NYS title, waiting on that now for my SL250

[dirtsquirt80]

I just printed the paper work off the Vermont dmv and sent it in will let you know how it goes. Scott

[pungo]

You will get two mailings, first is receipt of registration and sales tax paid. Few days later the plate and transferable reggie.

What state are you in?

[RHall1972]

How did you handle the requirement that you furnish a Vermont driver's license number?

[admin]

You do not need to furnish a VT drivers license # nor do you need to live in the state or own property.
Paul

[RHall1972]

Thanks, Paul. Below is the Registration Form, which has a block (under 4A) that specifies "VT Driver License No." I'm assuming, then, that an out-of-state Driver's License Number will suffice?

[RHall1972]

Ooops, here's that link: http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/ ... le_App.pdf

[admin]

I guess ????????????? I have never had to show my drivers license # before Russell but maybe Ivan will chime in and let us know if he has had to when he registers his bikes. Sorry I had not known this.
Paul

[RHall1972]

Thanks, Paul -- it'll certainly be interesting to see if this proves to be a viable option.

[pungo]

I used this company for my first VT->NYS title. They have an "agent" in VT and you sign a limited power of attorney to allow them to register it on your behalf. I had heard that in 2003 the rules changed that you have to be a resident. I decided to go the more expensive route on my 250Sl, in theory title on the way, will see.

http://www.motorecyclenow.com/title-service.html

They still gave me trouble at the DMV counter, told me I could not transfer the bike, told me I needed a VT title. I explained there are not VT titles. They wanted a bill of sale that I told them I turned into VT, just like they would take from me if I had one. I did have a dup but decided to pay the duplicate sales tax vs them seeing the short time line between date of purchase, date of reg in VT and date or reg in NY, all within two months.
I had to argue and argue with them until I was able to get a supervisor to come over. First they told me I could not register a bike in VT as a NYS resident!! Of course thats not true. Finally they accepted it, issued a plated and told me that Albany (NY gov capitor) would decide to issue a title or not.

Should be another couple weeks for the title to arrive or not, 4-6 weeks they say.

Then I get to do it all over again with BChappys 03 Wombat I just got. Going to wait until fall to do that one. Also going to try and find a more rural DMV office to go to where people dont hate there job as much, as those in our local seem to.

At least they did not say to me "Oh, your trying to pull that VT registration to NYS title scam are you!", which I half expected, despite being totally legal.

If they would just come up with SOME process that would enable you to register a old bike that has a lost title this would not be such a problem. In the end you would think they would just want the money, sales tax, title, reg etc. It would even be OK if you received a temporary title for 18months, like they do with a temporary registration for bikes prior to 1972 where there were no titles issued, after which period you would get a permanent title. That gives plenty of time for "lost/stolen" claims against the VIN to come in. Seems thats what they really care about, not titling stolen property.

Another one of the great joys of living in NYS, our lovely DMV!!

[dirtsquirt80]

I LEFT THE VT DRIVERS lic number empty but did include a copy of my NJ drivers lic and my SS number were it asked for it hope it will be ok. Scott

[dirtsquirt80]

Pungo I'm in New Jersey I sent it on july 3rd so we will see what happens Scott

[ossa95d]

The new registration form does indeed have a space for your VT drivers license #. Unfortunately I don't know if this is a required field. Let us know how you make out. Up until now it has been a very easy experience for individuals from out of state to register their bikes in Vermont. In the past if you called the VT DMV they would walk you through the process and were very pleased to accept the registration and your money. It did require verification of the VIN by a law enforcement officer. Good luck!

[pungo]

It seems the VT piece is the easy piece. The State transfer I expect varies by state and possibly by DMV office.

Let us know how submitting the paperwork yourself works out. I would like to go that way next time to avoid the service fees I paid this time. But its TBD if its possible being out of state. Also there is the matter of how much sales tax get paid. In NY they could care less what you have on your Bill Of Sale, they use some magic valuation system that is apparently different than Kellly Bluebook or NADA book. So if you paid little for the bike due to it needing major repairs and expense and then go to register it, they will charge you sales tax based upon what they determine is Fair Market Value. It does not matter what you paid for it. I argued this point but lost. They told me my 77 SL250 was valued at 3K!! I offered to sell it to them immediately. I argued my point of paying way less due to repairs needed and already paying sales tax in VT. Eventually they agreed to charge me less tax.

When I paid sales tax in VT it was for a bike value greater than my Bill Of Sale, by a few hundred, so they do something similar about Fair Market Value. But since I had to pay the title service company sales tax based upon NADA "GOOD" value there was enough $s to cover the VT sales tax charged. I was going to ask for a refund of the difference between what I paid the title service company vs what VT collected but decided not to since it was not a large amount.

So I am curious what you put down for bike value and what you used to come up with that value, vs Bill Of Sale. Also will see if VT accepts your valuation and sales tax amount. They may reject it and ask for more $s if its too low.

Keep us all posted.

[dirtsquirt80]

my bill of sale was from Strictly hodaka and I paid 1500 for the bike in 2004 so that's what I paid the tax on the paper work I sent in I will let you know what happens. I was surprise I still had the bill of sale lol

[admin]

I did not charge you enough for that 175SL from Portugal

[Zyx]

Eight years ago, I bought a 1968 Kaiser CJ5 in Alaska that had been previously titled to an individual, but had been abandoned to the possession of a repair shop. Most of the hoops I went through to get a title are not related to this discussion because I didn't start with your typical sale between owners, but the question of value was related to this discussion, although for a different reason. In your case, the state offering the title wants to be certain to collect sales tax, since that is why most government exists to begin with. In my case, payment for value was to protect the state against any potential future claim to recover the vehicle if the state issued a title to me, knowing that I bought the vehicle from someone other than the last registered owner. I also had to pay a price related to FMV as opposed to the amount I actually paid, because in my case, if someone claimed the car, their claim could not be for more than it was, then, worth in an arms length transaction between a willing buyer and willing seller, which is the definition of fair market value.

So while the reason for payment differs, the basis for determining value remains the same. It is not what you paid for it, unless it happens that the amount you paid is, in fact, fair market. But because that concept is broad and usually arguable, the state is going to take a conservative stance, and place the value at what everyone else but you thinks is the FMV. Whether they use NADA, KBB, or local want ads, the idea is the same. You might have gotten a screaming deal from a friend, but the state wants as much as they can reasonably claim, so they look beyond the actual purchase in setting value. I paid a bond valued at $3,000, the negotiated FMV of the CJ5, although what I paid for it was only $500, and I did have to sit down with a supervisor and "negotiate" the value. He wanted more, I wanted less, and we settled on $3,000. If you buy something out of state and don't pay sales tax on it, your state is going to want their pound of flesh. It is usually a negotiable process. So even if the state wants to use NADA "good" values, that is a guideline and a starting point, not a regulatory fixed answer to the question. But it would be up to YOU to argue that the value of your vehicle is less than NADA good, if that is their standard, and you are going to need documentation and possibly a professional appraisal, and, yes, these can be gotten for just about anything, anywhere, any time. If you want to pay less tax than you otherwise would have done if you had paid tax at point of sale, be prepared to show cause.

[pungo]

Did you keep an extra copy of the Bill Of Sale. You will surrender the original with the VT registration and NJ may want proof of purchase price, like NY. I just put down a number on the NY forms and told them I gave up my original to VT. Will be interesting to see what NJ DMV says when you go to title it there. We should build a state by state database on these success/failure stories.

[pungo]

Another thing I was told by the title company, when being asked to pay sales tax on the "GOOD" book value vs my actual cost, was that VT uses GOOD value as that is what represents a vehicle that would be road worthy and pass inspection. The fact you may have purchased it for much less than GOOD value, such as bike in a box etc, does not matter since it needs to be in good enough condition to be operated safely and pass inspection.

Thats a reasonable position for the gov to take if GOOD is reasonable. My 250SL is certainly not worth 3K as NYS says. My vintage bike value guide puts a NEW in the crate value at $2,900 and GOOD/FAIR value at $1,300 to 1,500, which is more reasonable valuation.

[Zyx]

Like I said, establishing a value other than the state's default position is up to you. I have several times now hired a professional appraiser, and have yet to have a professional appraisal challenged by a state DMV, or by an insurance company.

[dirtsquirt80]

I did not send the original I sent a copy of the bill of sale I must of missed the part were it said send the original. we will see what happens

[pungo]

Update

So I did receive my NYS 250Sl title today, yippie!!

Now I can confirm the VT path of transferable registration to NYS title is possible.

Come Sept we will see what happens when I try to do it again for Bills 03 Wombat.

They could peg me as some kind of King-Pin of a Vintage Hodaka bike thieving ring.

Just happy to have two of my three street legal machines with titles.
The 72 Wombat never had one as that was before them titled bikes, transferable registration is the title, like on our utility trailers.

[dirtsquirt80]

Update my plate and temp registration came I sent a copy of the bill of sale with the vin , miles , model and a copy of my Drivers license filled out the paper I printed off the Vermont dmv sat back and waited it was pretty easy. now time to get some more registered

[pungo]

Thats part A, did you get it through NJ DMV yet? Let us know how that goes.

Did you send sales tax money based upon your Bill of Sale or NADA (Good) valuation?

Think I will do the next one myself also since you had no problems, key I guess is getting the tax amount correct.