Model 92B Top End Woes

[thrownchain]

I own a similar tool, works on rotors, sprockets, inner and out clutch baskets. Had mine 30 years now, more than paid for itself.

[thrownchain]

Check amazon, search for Tusk clutch holding tool, several for under $25. Motion Pro, Pit Posse, others.

[matt glascock]

Yep, that's the tool I was talking about, Brad. The tool I have looks like the Tusk clutch holding tool Thrown describes. Just a word of caution if you use it. Look through the points adjusting slots and make sure you are not inserting the holding pins close to the coils. I didn't and ended up wrecking one of the coils when I gouged the fiber end cap insulation and wire lacquer with one of the pins. The result - a melange of new coil purchasing, stator rebuilding, and epic profanity. Also, if it seems that you are really reefing on the center pushing bolt and the fly wheel is not budging, a gentle, loving rap with a hammer on the push bolt or a plastic hammer along the edge of the fly wheel will shift it enough on the crank shaft taper to pop it off - possibly with a surprising amount of thrust. Be careful with this operation.

[Al Harpster]

Here's what I'm willing to do:

I'll put MY flywheel puller,

MY fork tool,

AND

A brand new set of 'standard' 50mm rings that fit a 1976 ART piston from a 100 cc Suzuki (that I'll never use) into a $8 priority mail size box. The rings are yours to keep. Maybe they fit the slots in your ART piston, maybe not. You decide. Don't buy any before you try.

BUT I want the tools back. And I want them back within 60 days.

YOU buy a good impact driver.

YOU get a copy of "Jim Gentry Cracks Cases Wide Open" from somebody on this forum. If I find it I'll post it.

You open the cases AND THEN buy the seals. The seals got numbers on 'em. Open the cases and read the numbers. Young guy like you can probably find them on the web with free shipping. Probably half off too.

aharpsteratcopperdotnet.

That's my best offer.

[Bullfrog]

Al, you beat me to it! Offering the use of a flywheel puller on a "loaner" basis. You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar! (<-- as we used to say back in the 1970's)

I find that I just can't help myself though . . . Brad, here are some old school/shade tree mechanic/survivalist/"Stone Ax Enterprises" tips for at least one "sweat equity" tool to address your flywheel and clutch holding/immobilization needs - wait a second, I need to go make a sketch. So the tool, um, "design" will follow in a subsequent message.

Text will suffice to address some other issues.

I agree, the HF "claw-puller" should go back. It will ruin parts - don't use it. No. Take Al up on his offer of the loaner Hodaka flywheel puller. It works. It won't damage the crank end or the flywheel.

While a manual impact driver is the preferred hand tool for removing case screws, there are other methods which can work virtually as well. NOTE that ALL these methods REQUIRE a means for holding the engine flat on its side and immovable. So, here is the "shade tree mechanic buddy method" - use a NEW #3 Phillips screw driver. (I mention the NEW screw driver because thousands of Hodie owners seem to insist on using Great Grandpa's big Phillips screwdriver which has been in use since the 1929 stock market crash! And then they bitc . . . er, um, complain that the Hodie case screws are junk. Wrong. They are not. NO!) Grip the handle in both hands and try to push the screw down thru the cases while also putting in a big grunt's worth of loosening torque - have your buddy whack the end of the screw driver handle with a hammer while you are pressing down and torqueing. Works pretty well. This method works pretty well on a stout workbench.

If you have a battery powered impact driver, which is quite common these days in workshops across the land. Get a #3 Phillips bit for it. But put the engine on its support blocking ON THE FLOOR, so you can put virtually your full weight down on the impact driver/bit when you burp the trigger to loosen the screw. (Make dang sure you've got it set for "loosen" before squeezing the trigger.) If you don't "lean in to it" HARD, you could strip the screw head - so lean into it big time. YES!

OK, that's enough for now. I'll go do the sketch of a homebuilt flywheel/clutch holding tool and post it in a little while.
Ed

[Bullfrog]

Brad,

If everything works well there will be a sketch of a "Stone Ax Enterprises" flywheel holding tool sized for the magneto flywheel on a 125cc engine. The hub clearing "notch" may need to be a different size for the ACE era flywheels - adjust the dimensions as needed. Oh, I would start with 4" wide flat bar for the project (which is probably over-kill) - but it will surely be strong enough for the job . . . and it isn't a racing part.

NOTE: By taking a peek at the clutch, you could come up with bolt ("pin") locations which would immobilize the clutch.
NOTE: With threaded-in pins which have been trimmed to the desired length, the flat side of the tool keeps the pins from reaching "in" too far and causing damage.

This tool "design" is offered for the classic Hodaka Owner (since 1964) who wants a nifty, low cost and easy-to-work-on motorcycle. Hodie owner's have been an inventive lot from the beginning. You may have to work out some details not shown on the sketch - but it should be helpful.
Ed (aka, Captain Eddie)

[thrownchain]

For those who do not have a set, get the JIS screwdrivers. I have a set a friend of mine gave me and they are a step above regular drivers. They seem to be able to stand more rotational torque without climbing up out of the screw head. Once you have a set you won't use the old ones. My go to on the bench from now on.

[brad100]

Yep, this is why I don’t want to leave the Hodaka world. It’s not just the holiday spirit. Y’all are a world-class group of men and women- incredibly generous, quick to troubleshoot, and even quicker to lend a hand. I hope every one of you out there had a Merry Christmas.

Holidays had me away from the forum and bike, which was for the best. It gave me ample time to slow down and contemplate where I want to take this project, what I want to invest in it, and what this motorcycle in particular means to me.

I’m motivated to get the job done, correctly, and ride this bastard into the sunset.

I came to a stop after my leakdown test, but have been amassing as much 2 stroke and small engine knowledge as I can via YouTube and the like. Feeling very confident in moving forward with the project after seeing several different techniques and opinions on dissasembly and reassembly, learning more of the operations (and names) of parts, and just how a 2T works in general. For anyone interested, there is a gentleman by the name of Shane Conley, an instructor at a technical college in Iowa, who has an INSANELY in depth, 75 part video series on 2T engines from all sorts of manufactures, shot from the perspective of a student. It’s incredibly informative and down-right puzzling that it is free. Not that you guys need to learn ANY of this, but for a newb like me coming across this page, click here and learn! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... k-uCEYZZ8O

Matt and Al, your offers are freaking kind and I’m humbled by your generosity. I’m going to commit to buying my own fork/flywheel holding tool (most likely one of those jewels off of Amazon that Matt and thrownchain speak of with the Christmas gift card that’s burning a hole in my pocket), but I will accept a loaner Hodaka flywheel puller and return the HF one to get things going. I plan on purchasing the one made specifically for Hodaka, but would like a peak inside the cases first to see what else needs go in my shopping cart.. Al, I’d love to try those piston rings, so I’m going to message you today. Too cool.

PS, I appreciate the tip on the numbered seals and will try to decipher and find the replacements I need.

Captain Eddie, thank you for the advice on the impact driver and removing case screws, as well as the sketch for the holding tool! That tool seems pretty foolproof and something I can fabricate before my coffee gets cold. I’m going to take a crack at it, but if I’m not confident in my craftsmanship, I won’t push it.

A lot of great information shared over the past few days, and if I didn’t reply directly to you I apologize. I thank each and every one of you for the knowledge and insights you’ve shared, and I look forward to getting this beast back on the streets one day!

[MTrat]

Remember, the flywheel ( and puller ) have lefthand threads. Clean the threads on both and lightly lube them, then screw the puller in (counter clockwise) as far as it will go. Hold the flywheel and tighten the puller shaft against the crankshaft end. A light tap on the end of the puller with a hammer will usually release the flywheel. If not tighten it more and tap again.

[Al Harpster]

If you're gonna use anything other than the official Hodaka Fork tool to hold the flywheel and it's supposed to hold by the FLYWHEEL SLOTS be careful.

Gouge one of those coils and you'll be adding to your parts list and adding a big headache.

[gearyoliver]

Ed, your post leaves me contemplating the trustworthiness of my friends.
Can't think of any that I would let swing the hammer.

[matt glascock]

Been there, Al. Hated it. Stator rebuild - not the most fun when the reason needed was carelessness with a holding tool.

[brad100]

Hi friends! To quote the fantastic The Clash:

“I've been beat up, I've been thrown out
But I'm not down, I'm not down”

I’m back with a vengeance! I wised up and enrolled at the technical college near me earlier this year, and I’m on my way to becoming a certified mechanic. Holy learning, Batman!

As we approached our engine class this week, I ordered it all. The fancy $150 gasket kit. A proper holding tool and flywheel puller. Beefy snap-ring pliers. A good impact driver.

Took some time to reassess where I left off and clean the stray dog hairs off of important parts. Polished and then decided to paint the magneto and clutch covers with a few coats of VHT High Temp Engine, black. Looks sharp.

Case is split, clean as a whistle, and in the oven for easy bearing removal. New bearings are in the freezer, and fingers crossed for an easy drop-in. Going live in about 15 minutes.

Edit** Fell right out. Yay. Counter shaft bushing and main shaft bushing are still in tact, and look brand new to be honest. Should these still be replaced while I’m in here? Save the new bushings for a rainy day, or is it imperative they go in to replace the “old” ones? If the old ones are good (sure look like it, zero pitting/burrs/snags/discoloring), I will begin to reassemble tonight!

I’ve been a little intimidated and feeling a little overwhelmed to even check the site for the past couple months. Glad to be not feeling that way anymore, and to have the motivation to complete this project as spring comes along. A big thanks again to all who have chipped in their advice, spare parts, and wisdom.

Now wish me luck as I button this gremlin back up!

[brad100]

Oh yeah, some workstation pics! Look how clean

[gearyoliver]

Lookin good! I'm at about the same place as you with my 03.

[brad100]

Thought it was going good until today. Over the past month I have replaced all bushings, bearings, gaskets, etc included in the Hodaka Parts rebuild package. Aligned all the internal bits, got the case back together, torqued down the flywheel and clutch.

Today I wanted to tackle the piston assembly and get my cylinder on. Welp, both of the NOS NPR piston rings shattered on me while fitting the piston in the jug. I’m at a loss. No leads on any more piston rings that will fit my bore. Anyone interested in looking to pick up where I’m going to leave off, feel free to message me.

[thrownchain]

Where and how much? What size rings do you need?

[taber hodaka]

What end gap did you have on the rings? Were your rings possibly upside down? If you don't change procedure you might need a dozen rings. I am not trying to be funny here. Dozens upon dozens of hodaka engines have been bored only because someone had enough money, while a good running engine will go further than most of us will ride. Shane's video kinda leads me in disbelief, the rope trick, penny trick ect. The hodaka flywheel puller works much better as two wrenches do the whole removal procedure. Is there any Hodaka folks in your area? Engine rebuilding is technique not luck. -------------- Clarence

[Al Harpster]

I've had trouble installing rings.

Never broke any, but sure felt like I came close.

Last time I used a pair of snap ring pliers as a Hillbilly ring expander.

It sorta worked.

As asked above: what size rings do you need?

[Bullfrog]

I don't want to make a bad situation worse . . . but there may be a coachable moment here which might also benefit others. Normally, the rings are at the greatest risk of breaking when being put on the piston. I've never broken a ring while trying to install the cylinder, so I'm kind of wondering what techniques lead to breaking rings while trying to do that.

Were you using the "standard" U-shaped piston support tool which straddles the rod and keeps the piston "vertical" and doesn't allow it to move down toward the crank? (I'll find a photo of the tool if needed.)

What else can you tell me about how the rings got broken?

Ed

[Al Harpster]

Boy, did I ever fail to read the post carefully.

I thought the rings MUST have been broken while installing the on the piston.

The biggest trouble I have installing the ringed piston into the cylinder is keeping the end gaps on the tiny pins.

Never thought of and never saw a "U" tool for stabilizing the piston. Next time I'll make one. I can see how it would help.