shifting Adjustment

[DGardner]

Can someone tell me how to adjust the shifting on my 94 wombat? I have read the manual but do not understand where you need to measure from. Thanks DG

[RichardMott]

DG,

Try this 2 part method I have in my database.

Shifter Mechanism Adjustment (Hodaka)

A: Trial and error method
Place a stand or block under the motorcycle so it is held upright with the rear
wheel clear of the ground. Shift transmission to low gear. Remove the two
Phillips head screws securing the shifter cover to the magneto cover and set
cover aside. Using a metal stylus, scribe a line from the head of the shifter
arm adjusting bolt down and across the shifter guide. Turn the lock nut
securing the shifter arm adjusting bolt counterclockwise one turn. (Prevent
adjusting bolt from turning while loosening lock nut by holding with a 10mm end
wrench). Rotate the eccentric shouldered adjuster bolt 1/4 turn
COUNTERCLOCKWISE from scribed line and tighten lock nut (against prevent
adjuster bolt from turning while tightening lock nut). Rock rear wheel forward
and backward to test for low gear engagement. Repeat process for second,
third, and top gears. If engagement appears to be satisfactory, test ride the
machine as final proof. If the transmission fails to shift properly during
the road test or while rocking the wheel to test engagement, back off the
adjusting bolt lock nut, reset adjuster bolt position to 1/4 turn CLOCKWISE
from scribed line on shifter guide and tighten lock nut and test as before.
Properly adjusted, the transmission will not skip a gear, neither will it
allow the gear to come in and out of engagement under acceleration. After
adjusting, check lock nut for tightness and replace shifter cover and screws.

B: Measurement Method
Remove magneto cover assembly. Remove the foot change inside cover. Measure
from the inside surface of the magneto cover to the nearest face of the shifter
sliding pin. The proper measurement is 35.1mm (1.38 in.) (measured at the
center of the shifter arm slack). Loosen the lock nut and adjust the eccentric
bolt as necessary to achieve the proper measurement. Tighten the lock nut and
re-install the inside cover. NOTE: If desired, the inside cover may be left
in place - in which case, the proper measurement is 37mm (1.45 in.)

Good luck,

Rick

[rlkarren]

I'm with Doug on this one... those instructions are awfully ambiguous and really don't make a lot of sense. For example:

"Using a metal stylus, scribe a line from the head of the shifter arm adjusting bolt down and across the shifter guide."

What is "down an across"? Like this?

Screen Shot 2014-04-29 at 10.56.00 AM.png (24.28 KiB) Viewed 11414 times

I'm guessing that what is important is that you need to be able to identify "center" and accurately measure the amount of turn of the eccentric bolt, clockwise and counterclockwise. And, that 1/4 turn is the most it will deviate from center, either direction. true?

As far as the measurement method, "inside surface of the magneto cover". ??? there's an awful lot of real estate in "inside surface of the magneto cover". From what specific point on the "inside surface of the magneto cover"? And, when it says, "the inside cover may be left
in place - in which case, the proper measurement is 37mm", this seems to indicate that "inside surface of the magneto cover" is actually the inside edge if the magneto cover, against which, the foot change inner cover mounts. Which causes more confusion... is the measurement taken from the plane across the inside surface or some arbitrary point on this edge. And if the foot change inner cover is mounted, how the dickens are you supposed to measure to the nearest face of the sliding pin? It's sealed inside the inner cover!

It's entirely likely I am over-thinking these instructions. I am a computer guy after all... And when I finally get it, I'll laugh at myself for not understanding.. But in the meantime, I'll second Doug's request and ask for a better, more specific tutorial

Thank you,

Roger

[JayLael]

The Hodaka manuals have all this info in them I would imagine, however, what works for me is basically the following.
Ride the bike and try to determine if you are missing shifts or not. If you are, try to ascertain whether or not the missed shifts occur while upshifting, or downshifting, and which gear is affected. Say for example, it misses third gear when downshifting into a corner, but seems ok when upshifting. Then set the machine on a box, and access the inspection cover. Rock the back wheel while you up shift or downshift, specifically watching the arm as it does it's job. If you can duplicated the missed shift, you simply have to determine whether the arm is going past the point it needs to be, or shy of it, then adjust the arm in or out depending on what is needed. The other point that one needs to understand is, you need to shift the tranny up to fifth, or down to first and back and forth as needed, in order to manipulate the lock nut and the eccentric adjuster bolt effectively. Otherwise you won't get adequate swing on your 10 mm wrenches. Try it and then ask questions.

[DGardner]

Thanks for the reply's. Like Rodger said where do you measure from and does the shifter need to be in what gear to do the measurement? Thanks DG

[DGardner]

I wish there was a video on doing this....hint..... hint. DG

[tvrc18]

I found that 3rd gear was the best spot for me to tighten or loosen the lock nut when doing the adjustment. I noticed that when trying to get first the control shaft does not seem to pull out far enough to engage the gear but when it does it seems to go to far. After that it is hard to get back to 2nd or nuetral with out helping with pushing on the shaft with your finger. I am going to try a new control shaft and ball receiver to see if it helps. Anyone ever experience this symptom?
Terry

[Dale]

Roger, To address your question regarding the instruction to scribe a line, here is my understanding. If you scribe a line across the top of part number 17 and then up part number 18 where they meet, then as you turn the bolt (part number 23) you can see the movement of your scribed line. See the picture below.

Screen%20Shot%202014-04-29%20at%2010_56_00%20AM.png (21.62 KiB) Viewed 11350 times

[rlkarren]

Dale,

OH!! Now that makes sense!.. (yeap, I'm chuckling...)

Now if someone could chime in on the measurement method...

Thanks Dale!

Roger

[Pep]

Terry,
If you're replacing the control shaft assy, consider a new set of springs - the original springs (particularly the left handed one) are often sacked out (in my experience). Paul is selling great non-handed springs of high quality material - I've been really pleased with them. This might be part of the trouble?
Also, be sure you have the inner cover in place when you are adjusting the shifter on the bike - seems like one time I was doing it without the cover and the arm was doing what you are describing. It's been awhile, but I think not having that cover can be an issue during adjustment.
Anyway, hope that helps...
-Laurie

[Bullfrog]

I'll have to take some heat on this one. The description of the measurement method and the scribing of the line is word-for-word from the 125 Workshop Manual (which I wrote/assembled). In my own defense . . . the description actually came (word-for-word) from the earlier ACE 90-100 Workshop Manual . . . and that text seemed to be working OK at the time. (The absence of complaints is the same as approval????).

Ennneywayeeeee, the scribe line description is an attempt to create some means of seeing how much you have "moved" the shifter arm as you turn the adjusting bolt. Scribe lines as you see fit to ensure that you can see the actual effects of your adjustments of the position of the adjusting bolt. Dale's suggestion seems fine.

As for the measurement reference surface, get a straight edge and "bridge" it across the "surface" and take a measurement to the sliding key when the shifter is in third gear . . . It shouldn't take much searching to find a "bridge" location which results in a measurement which is pretty close to 35.1mm. When you find that location . . . you will see/know what is being described. (Ditto for the measurement with the inside cover still in place.)

And yes, if you are adjusting by the trial and error method, the shifter cover must be fully assembled (with the inside cover in place).

Ed
PS: I am formulating a "doctoral dissertation" in my mind for publication at a later date. It may take some time, since some "tooling" is required to assure precise/repeatable positioning of components and cameras to obtain photos for the dissertation. But the plan is there.
PPS: The FIRST step in adjusting the shifter system is diagnosing whether or not it has excessive wear/slop. Especially check the fit of the foot change shaft in it's bore. If that fit is sloppy, the problem MUST be repaired in order to achieve proper shifting. (Adjustment will not "cure" excessive wear/slop).

[michael_perrett]

What about "snick" shifting?
"Always ride uphill from the truck"
ECHJYA pension fund manager

[tvrc18]

Laurie I did get a set of the space age springs from Paul and installed them when I had the cases split. I did notice when the control shaft was a little further out than should engage 1st gear the shaft was binding a bit. I did not think it would be an issue because the control rod should never get that far out to grab 1st. I may be wrong on that and it may be binding there when in 1st. I think I will try a control shaft and ball receiver and re-use the new springs. I hope I have not damaged the new springs but; shifting by hand I can't see how it would be possible to collapse one but not sure. I guess it is possible to pull the control shaft with out splitting the cases, I know you can change the springs with out splitting but what if you pull the shaft out. I don't think the balls can fall thru the counter shaft with the rod out.
Terry

[Bullfrog]

Mike,

Does your post mean that you think I should include a "chapter" on the human/machine interface? (ie, "snick" your Hodie shifts).

Terry, you are "safe" removing the control shaft with the engine in the frame. The balls can NOT fall into the center of the countershaft. Though I'd have to say that I question the need for the change. I'd recommend the following:
1. Check the foot change shaft for excessive slop in its bore.
2. If #1 is OK, install the shift cover on the engine and pursue the "trial-and-error" method of adjustment. Usually, if you get the shifter mechanism adjusted so that shifts into 3rd gear are "spot on" whether shifting up or down . . .then that is the "sweet spot". How do you tell "spot on"? While doing the trial-and-error method shifts into 3rd, if the gear engages WITHOUT the control shaft doing a last little "jump" either "in" or "out" -- you've got it. Or, said another way, you make the shift into third and the mechanism indexes the control shaft EXACTLY where it should be, such that there isn't a little jump when the gear engages. This should happen whether shifting up or down. (If you play with it, you'll see the little jump I'm talking about - especially in 2nd and 4th.) Get it "nailed" in 3rd . . . and you are there.

Ed

[DGardner]

Thank you Ed that's what I was looking for! Thanks DG

[Pep]

Beautifully put Ed, and looking forward to that dissertation...
Terry, I think you said that George Cone rebuilt your shifter, which means that side of things are probably spot-on. You've probably already done this, but don't forget to make sure that control shaft is straight (can check in a drill chuck). Any bend or wobble will cause shifting troubles.
-Laurie

[tvrc18]

I will check if it shifts into 3rd like you said, I think it does. George Cone rebuilt my shift case so it is like new. I was concerned with the binding when it was out all the way and maybe to far past first the binding would occur and it needed help going back in to 2nd or nuetral. I have seen the shaft move or jump like it has not fully engaged but I will try to get it not to do that in 3rd up or down. I know George said he had never seen a control shaft bend but can the ball receiver wear to a point it needs replaced?
Terry

[DGardner]

My bike shifts great to 5th gear it is when I start to down shift from 5th that the problem starts, it will not come out of 5th and when I get it out the rest of the gears shift good. I rebuilt the shift cover and it is tight. What am I doing wrong?

[Pep]

I've seen lots of bent control shafts - bent one myself awhile back (shift cover came loose and there was some hard shifting before I realized it).
Like was said before, if you get third gear dialed in (watching that the arm and shaft shift nice and even, with no in or out 'jump' on the control shaft), then the other gears will engage nicely. If the shaft has a little bend or warp to it, it won't stay clean in every gear.
I'm not sure about wear points, I've not noticed that as a problem before, but folks with more knowledge may have experience with that.
-Laurie

[Dale]

DG,
When you say that you rebuilt the shift cover and that it is tight, are you talking the shift shaft bushing? What about the internal parts. The Shifter guide, ratchet, ratchet plunger and shaft key? Excessive wear on any of these parts will cause issues.

The best way to isolate the trouble to the shift cover and eliminate the shift springs or internal case issues, is to swap it out with a known working cover. Do you have any options to do that? Where are you located?
Dale

[RichardMott]

I always bring a spare shift cover with me to events. I have a spare one that has trouble getting into first. I was going to bring it to HD14 so someone can help set it up. Perhaps we could do a tech seminar on it.

Rick

[DGardner]

I put every part new in the cover...I do have a nos new cover that I could put on and try it.

[JayLael]

Flyingdg: You have a known issue which I have experienced first hand. There is excessive slop in the index gear to shift shaft fitment. Usually this requires replacement of the indexing gear and the shifter shaft. A temporary fix can be obtained by stretching an o ring over the spool, so the o ring rests on the control shaft and prevents overtravel in fifth gear. I grabbed one from my parts pile that is about 2 mm thick. Either fix will work, but the correct fix is to replace those worn parts if you can find them.

[Bullfrog]

Ah, good - Jay jumped in before I mentioned his discovery/development for situations where the shifter just can't seem to pull the control shaft out of the 5th gear position. The ONLY currently known way for this to happen involves excessive wear on the components Jay mentioned. The control shaft simply can't go "in" farther than intended . . . but worn components allow the shifter mechanism parts to effectively go "in" farther than intended which puts them in a "lock up" situation.

Back to the shifter adjustment vs. changing out the control shaft. IF the control shaft hangs up in the 1st gear position when placed there by the shifter mechanism . . . then it is likely that the control shaft is bent and needs replacement or straightening. (any bent control shaft ought to be replaced/straightened. Bends are usually quite visible when the control shaft is in 1st gear position and the rear wheel is turned by hand.) HOWEVER, it seems easier (for the situation mentioned earlier in this thread) to attempt to restore proper shifter adjustment first. If problems persist ( such as "sticking" in 1st, or other problems can't be adjusted out) . . . then go after the control shaft.

Ed

[JayLael]

It occurs to me that (forgive me if this has been mentioned already) I've had binding of the control shaft in first gear due to one of two possible causes.
1: Using one of those ball receiver kits that has bushings on the outside of the springs, (like webco), and the bushing is sticking in the bore of the countershaft.
2: The left hand spring is opened up slightly, and is sticking in the bore of the countershaft.
The new type springs are a large part of the solution, but the other part is using a Model 97,98, and early road toad type control shaft and ball receiver, which is a huge part of de-gremlinizing your shifts.