NGK vs Champion

[Dale]

I only use NGK. And for good reason.

Isn't it funny how sometimes something sticks in our mind and makes a lifelong impression? This is how my fuzzy memory recalls my reason to believe that NGK is the only plug to use in a 2-stroke.

I believe it was 1974 and several people that I knew attended the large MX event that was held concurrent with Evil Knievel's attempt to jump the Snake River canyon in Twin Falls, Idaho. At the conclusion of one of the race finals the crowd pressed in around the winner still sitting on his bike. I believe that the rider was none other than Roger DeCoster but I'm not positive on that. Champion was a sponsor at these races and were front and center to immediately present the winner a check (for $10,000 as the story went) for winning with Champion. It was during this presentation that someone leaned down and noted that the bike had an NGK plug in it.

After hearing this story (yes, it was second hand information) and after seeing multiple ads in the motorcycle magazines of the time claiming that Champion was the plug choice of champions, my young mind was firmly made up. I have used nothing but NGK ever since.

So there you have it. NGK is the only way to go!

[hodakamax]

We used NGK in the day because that was the only one that worked. It didn't take long to figure it out. I don't know what Champion was thinking at the time. I use NGKs in everything, even my American cars. Good observation Dale!

Maxie

[Joe Ormonde]

Oil and Spark Plugs! I Like Champion Spark Plugs. The most serious, sad and troubling thing that I ever saw was when two of my riding buddies got into it over OIL. Mike and Bill. Bill`s Yamaha siezed up. Mike used Bel Ray. Bill told Mike it was junk oil. Mike asked Bill(Really: where`s your Yamaha?).Mike then told Bill that either the oil he used was junk or his Yamaha was.What happened next is why I refuse to comment on what a person does or doesn`t prefer. Bill hit Mike so hard we thought Mike was DEAD! ALL OVER OIL.Need I say more? Joe Ormonde.

[Darrell]

Remember NGKs have the "Copper Core" which really might increase the conductivity from weaker coils and points-and-condenser ignition systems.

[matt glascock]

Its easy for some to get emotionally involved with these subjects. I say 'go with what you know and what works predictably'. For me, that means NGK plugs, Belray transmission oil, Yamalube 2-R premix oil, 93 octane no alcohol pump gas, and Unifilters. Your preferences may vary and that's TOTALLY cool.

[taber hodaka]

Joe likes Champion plugs because they have served him well. I use them in lawn mowers but they did not serve me well, in the snowmobile application. If we were all the same we would all wear blue shirts and drive red Fords and nobody would know it was my truck parked at LuLues bar. -------------------Clarence

[Dale]

Exactly Clarence. That is the point I was trying to make by confessing to just how frivolous my logic was for only using NGK. Use what ever works for you. If something doesn't work, you will find something that does.

I am also thinking that if we weren't all a little different then we wouldn't be fans of Hodaka.

[MTrat]

That's my story and I'm sticken to it..............

[hodakamax]

Maybe Champion finally figured it out. Sorry, in the day, Champions didn't work while NGK did. Champions worked in Briggs at the time but not in Hodakas. If you had a Harley or Briggs powered motor, you may have gotten by or even back home. Racing and winning was using NGK. This is not about what you like but what provides the best service. The rest is old wives tales. Ok, I feel better now!

Maxie

PS-- for some reason 50 years ago, automotive plugs, we called them, AC, Autolite and Champion didn't perform well in two-strokes. Short useful lives and fouling was common. Once we figured out which plugs worked , two stroke tuning was much easier. Today, they probably do have plugs that are equivalent, but I was cured long ago.

[gearyoliver]

Hey Joe,
The important question...are they still friends? I hope so.
Whatever products we use and how we do stuff is our own choice. Heck I measured every drop of oil as a kid mixing it. Never had a siezure. My buddy filled his tank almost full took a bottle of yamalube and dumped a few glugs in. Never blew it up. Go figure...

[bcruder]

Champion offered the most extensive source of extended-tip spark plugs.

Before the rise of fine-wire electrodes, extended-tip plugs were most resistant to fouling AND expressed a wider heat range. They heated up more from combustion while also cooling more from each new charge. Also, they promoted more efficient combustion with some head shapes because their tips were more centered in the combustion chamber.

Some recent Huskies perform better with the factory-specified extended-tip than with a fine-wire with the same heat range. That may have been partly from the tip geometry and partly from the NGK fine-wire being a resistor plug. Fewer manufacturers even catalog non-resistor plugs now and those fine-wire plugs were developed for water-cooled four-stroke use.

When resistor plugs and high-tension wires first appeared, Motoplat warned that they appeared to suffer more ignition failures. Perhaps the Champion Y-tip plugs were a better idea, at least for the time. Since non-resistor anti-RFI ignition wires appeared, let alone the more recent coil-on-plug ignitions, resistor plugs are less important. Two-stroke owners should at least check plugs for resistance and seek those with the least, certainly less than 5k ohms. Most of the NGK plugs that I have checked recently are closer to 10k ohms.

Back in the 70's, I found myself using Champion plugs for enduro and recreational riding where full-throttle was infrequent.

[taber hodaka]

The longer the reach of the plug the hotter the NGK plugs B$, B4H, B4E are all in the hot heat range. I tune my motorcycle by jetting, not by changing the heat range of the spark plug. I run the coldest plug I can without fouling. Spark plugs come in standard, competition, and racing. The B12HN is so cold it never worked for me . As we give information out here for beginners and having been a hodaka dealer for 10 years and sponcering racing teams, I would never use a champion plug in a air cooled engine ever. I never had problems with AC. I lost or had total engine failure using champion plugs, they would not take the heat, fell apart and destroyed the engine more than once. I don't know when it could ever be an advantage. I think HODAKA came with NGK and that is what I used without problems. -------------------Clarence

[viclioce]

I don’t have any real argument. My preference is what is recommended by the manufacturer. They buy the most, but I don’t know if that’s who ever was cheapest or whoever worked the best!!! It only gets harder when the recommended plug is no longer made. Victor

[taber hodaka]

Hodaka recommended 16 to one mix for the gas, 30 weight non detergent oil for the transmission. Recommended??-----------Clarence

[tudor8055]

I use an Autolite XS4092DP in my model 96 dirt squirt. Its a fine wire equivalent to an NGK B8HS. I use two copper washers under it to correct for reach.
I built the engine about five years ago, it has a PVL ignition and a new 22mm Mikuni. Bike has about 40 to 50 hrs. Most riding is low RPM tight trail to almost vintage trials. I have pulled the plug a couple of times in the past to inspect and it is always a nice light brick color.
The bike just never breaks, but I do keep up with the maintanance. I won't divulge my engine oil/ratio or transmission oil choice for fear of being chastised but it all works very well.

[Al Harpster]

I use the Denso Iridium.

I guess I got sold on their claim that the smallest diameter electrode yields the best spark.

But I'm a street rider, not a racer.

I've visited the Champion plant in Ohio where they made the ceramic insulators. An awful lotta work goes into them. They seemed very focused on process control & quality.

[viclioce]

Hodaka recommended 16 to one mix for the gas, 30 weight non detergent oil for the transmission. Recommended??-----------Clarence

Worked well in the 60’s & 70’s! Victor

[MTrat]

I worked on Kawasakis for a while which had CDI and used NGK plugs that were flat faced with no extended ground electrode. What's the thought on those plugs?

[taber hodaka]

They would have been a cold plug by my memory. I did use the J4J champion in the lawn mower cutting short grass. --------Clarence

[matt glascock]

For hot-rods, we used Champion or Accel. For bikes, all NGK all the time. Maybe that's all the bike shops carried.

[Joe Ormonde]

The only problem with Champion is they sometimes show several different Spark Plugs for the cross reference to the NGK. Case in point is Champion L81 crosses over to a B8HS and B7HS. Champion L86 crosses over to a B6HS BUT also Crosses over to a NGK B7HC. Just a HARD Spark Plug to figure out but I like them. Joe

[JPark]

Remember NGKs have the "Copper Core" which really might increase the conductivity from weaker coils and points-and-condenser ignition systems.

The copper core, as I understand it, is part of the centre electrode and conducts heat away which would help avoid preignition. The insulator is what needs to get hot to burn off the carbon deposits. On a two stroke that can hole a piston, the odds seem better with a copper core.

While it is 'common sense' that the least resistance possible in the system would provide the strongest spark, the gap itself is a pretty massive resistance. Having some 5k resistance in the path actually reduces the chances of leakage out through the carbon on the insulator as the voltage rises. You don't want so much that it affects the main event, but having some can be beneficial.

I remember 'back in the day' that sometimes a multi cylinder bike would come in the shop with one cylinder not firing, and in pulling the lead off the plug would start to fire. Holding the lead with a sufficient gap would make the spark instantaneous enough to avoid the leakage. It's counterintuitive but worked.

These days, with no lead deposits and much cleaner burning oils and such, plug fouling is mostly avoidable, but I don't see the resistor as being a problem. I've been running a BR8S with no ill effects.