The 2 the Max Project

[Hydraulic Jack]

Caliper paint is found at the auto parts store. It is simply high temperature ceramic paint in colors that go well as brake caliper paint. Applied correctly it is fairly durable but if used on parts that do not naturally heat cycle, as brake parts do, it will never fully cure and will be easy to lift with gasoline. You may need to bake your wheel parts to get it to cure.

[Bill2001]

Bake them in the oven.

[hodakamax]

Ah, E-bay, sometimes it works, sometimes not. I ordered a !5mm to 12mm sleeve for the project to sleeve up the axle. I worked last time. Ten bucks for a 4'' piece of tubing to make an axle fit. Ten bucks is not much to fix a problem. Well, it didn't work this time. My ten dollar 4'' piece of tubing wasn't round but oval, making it not go through the 15mm hole in the bearing and a really sloppy fit on the smaller axle. Well, you can voice a complaint on E-bay and I did and got a prompt response from the seller. "You will need to drive it in with a hammer" they said. Hmmm, fooled again. Off to the machine shop who takes things seriously. Just a report on crap.

Maxie

[viclioce]

Dang! Sorry to hear that. Time to buy your own tubing which meets the OD you need and can be drilled to the ID you need and cut to fit! Hope you get what you need to work! Best of luck! Victor

[hodakamax]

Hey Victor, just part of the many challenges along the way! Today I'm going to explore putting Ceriani forks on the project which as I recall won't need the spacer sleeve. Part of the fun. I did send the E-bay seller a hot e-mail to straighten this out. They really hate a bad rating which might be coming up.

Thanks for your interest,

Max

[Bill2001]

You might want to check with McMaster-Carr on this. I'm thinking they have precision ID/OD tubing.

[hodakamax]

I did some work today figuring out spacers and such which was made a bit more of a challenge as the fork tubes are off to be straightened. It looks like all is going to work relatively easy with the Ace 100 forks and stock spacers. I still need a 15mm to 12mm axle sleeve that will go through the two wheel bearings and brake hub. I also tried the same procedure on a set of 28mm Ceriani forks but some machining would have to be done on the brake hub to get things centered. All is well, I'll get the sleeve thing figured out soon and get the fork/wheel combo on the mock-up. I also ordered some clip-on bars that should work. Some progress and fun happening.

And Bill, thanks for the tip but they didn't have the right size. If all else fails I'm sure my machinist can whip something out that will be more precise.

Maxie

[viclioce]

OK! So are they going to cut you a spacer from solid rod stock? Guess that's your only option at this point?

I sure like the way that wheel looks. Just as a "I want to know" thing, does the dual pull offer superior braking compared with a single pull OEM brake setup? I'm guessing yes, but really curious as to how much more effective the braking is. Seems like it wouldn't be a whole lot more braking, but I'm curious. At least not when compared with disc brake setups. But I know those wouldn't be period correct. Let me know! Victor

[hodakamax]

Good questions Victor. All I know is the Hodaka shoes have about 8.0 square inches of surface compared to 14.6 which is almost twice as much surface area for the Honda shoes. I don't know if there's any mechanical advantage or how much with twin cams. We'll see. I'll keep you posted. I've got to get it going before I can stop it.

Maxie

[Bill2001]

The Honda brakes are "dual leading shoe" design which are "self-energizing". One shoe actually provides added braking force for the other shoe.
Google those two quoted terms to find out more.

[Hydraulic Jack]

Double leading shoe brakes offer a mechanical advantage over the Hodaka design because of increased clamp force, but are more expensive to make, they are heavier, and probably harder to adjust correctly. Whether they are better or worse than a disc is not answerable because there isn't a direct comparison here. If you compare discs and drums with the same swept area, drums are generally a little better. Why then use disc brakes on everything these days? Cheaper, easier to install, easier to maintain, probably lighter. At the very edge of extreme brake use, discs don't fade as quickly because they shed outgasses faster, but if you drill the brake drum the way some brake rotors are drilled, they shed gas fast as well, don't fade much, and inch for inch work as well as any disc. You may have noticed that cars with high performance discs up front have really large discs. This is to increase swept area and contact patch area.

[hodakamax]

I'm still playing with options on spacing the front axle for the Honda wheel. One of the ideal solutions would be to replace the wheel bearings from the 15mm axle diameter down to 12mm and some of you have mentioned that solution. You still need the 15mm to 12mm sleeve for the brake plate which I do have in a short piece from the last project. For some reason Honda went with a pair of large 42mm outer diameter front wheel bearings and a 15mm axle. A 6302 bearing for the Honda is 15x42x13. The first number is the inner bearing size. Nobody makes a 12x42x13. Well, I did at least explore the possibility for those who mentioned it. That would have been a good fix. I still need a real 15mm to 12mm sleeve. Just checking out all the possibilities.

Maxie

[hodakamax]

Invariably when you move to the next step on this project the works of DPOs and the elements that has been hiding from view suddenly come to light. A necessary modification for short track has been made to the frame that worked but wasn't done how I'd do it. The frame fork stops don't look original and don't properly line up with the Ace 100 tree. Not only that but the right side has been cut back with a torch to allow for extreme right steering which is sometimes needed when entering a left-hand turn in an extreme slide. Not what I need or at least I hope not. I think I'll get out the Sawzall and start over.

I'm trying to keep to the script which is to first figuring out wheels and suspension. Rolling would be good. All part of the process and I'm not complaining but things like this need to be addressed as they come along. That way you can assemble a mock up or prototype to modify and get things into position. Then, when all suits you, it's time to take it apart and do final finish things like paint. At least that's the plan.

I've been fiddling a lot with wheel sizes and now that I'm somewhat locked in with the 18" front, I'm hunting a good Ace 100b rear wheel with the old four bolt sprocket. They are 18'' and probably have a narrower rim than the one that came on it which was a model 93 18'' cush hub which is close to unusable and too wide for my tire needs.

BTW if anyone has a 100b 4-bolt 18'' wheel could I get a rim width measurement?

Thanks!

Maxie

[dirty_rat]

The one I have measures 41mm inside (bead area) and 60mm outside (rim edge to edge). I believe this makes it a 1.60 rim.

[hodakamax]

Ah, thanks dr. Same as the Honda front. This should work!

Max

[Hydraulic Jack]

Here is a photo of the rim stamping from an original 100B rear rim:

It reads Takasago 160 Ax 18 W OH-Y

Any 1.60 rim should have the same bead to bead width. Unless Hodaka used a wider rim in later models, rims should be the same.

[hodakamax]

Thanks Jack. Now to consider tire sizes for the project. If we're going for top speed, skinny tires are needed but as a road racer or track bike, maybe a bit beefier. We will be turning corners at relatively high speeds. Not much tire spin problems on 100cc bikes. I would think like sizes front and rear might be in order. All still up in the air. Opinions and ideas welcome. First we have to deal with what's available. Ideas? I've actually had some experience in road racing and track days on several bikes from tricked out RZ-350s, 600 rockets , a 750 Ducati and a 1000 Suzuki. My experience is that smaller is funner in that momentum is a big factor. On the big machines you never feel totally in charge or at least I didn't. Sadly or maybe luckily I'm past that stage in life but the project is still intriguing I guess is the word. Making small things go fast is a good passion and challenge. Fun project happening whether it sets any goals or just entertains me.

Maxie

[matt glascock]

Trust me Maxie , it entertains all of us.

[hodakamax]

Speaking of road racing this is a picture from 10 years ago when I'd just turned 65. One of my best friends informed me that we were going road racing to celebrate my 65th birthday. At first I thought he was kidding and what would I ride was my first thought and where would we do this? Ah, he had it figured out. A Jason Pridmore racing school at Topeka Kansas and a beasty 749 Ducati he had just bought. We dubbed the adventure "The Last Great Race". Kinda crazy but we were off for a day of exceeding the speed limit and scary slides for the last time. An excellent racing photographer was there and after hearing the story made sure he got the shots. My friend was on another Ducati and I must say we had an excellent adventure. Check out this great shot the photographer pulled off even showing my ever loyal Hodaka t-shirt. Old people shouldn't be allowed to drive that fast. On one straight I kept seeing 125 MPH and on the longer straight it was no time to be looking at the speedo. Wow! What a day!

Maxie

Make sure to click on these, super sharp racing shots!

[Bill2001]

Mad, Max.

[Bill2001]

Max, don't know if you are on FB, or if this is useful to you, but here is a Hodaka road racer from the Hodaka Fan Club page:

[hodakamax]

Hey thanks Bill. I see it has big brakes. Here's another under Your Bikes on the SH site.

Max

[Bill2001]

Sweet.

When I'm working up a project it is helpful to look at other examples. Not so much to steal ideas, but to not reinvent the wheel.

Look at the size of the front sprockets on those bikes!!!

[hodakamax]

As I remember you can run a 17 on the front with no inner cover. Maybe, that was a long time ago. This is also why I need a four bolt hub with 18'' wheel. I doubt you can get a small enough sprocket on the 93 cush hub. I'll use the small 36T if I can find one. All the ones I have have been damaged by the overlay sprocket of the time. More things to figure out.

Maxie

[MTrat]

Yes, a 17 tooth sprocket will work if you remove the inner cover.