E85 gas???

[Hodaka250SL]

I have a 250SL. I was wondering if it was possible to run it on E85 and if so what would I have to do to make it run right

[thrownchain]

Why, there's better options.

[Hodaka250SL]

I like a challenge. And what other options are there. I like having different options

[thrownchain]

You find non ethanol gas. Or the "standard" 10 percent mixture.

[matt glascock]

The main problems with using oxygenated (read alcohol-blended) fuels in vintage 2-stroke motorcycle engines are as follows - 1) their propensity to attract and trap water which may result in fuel system, internal engine, and exhaust system corrosion, 2) the alteration in the miscibility of fuel/oil, either premixed or injected which can adversely effect engine lubrication, 3) the potential for damage to the rubber oil seals, carberator o-rings, etc. resulting in an air leak, lean condition, and predicted engine damage, 4) the different vapor pressures of alcohol vs gasoline resulting in an alteration of the evaporative and atomization characteristics of the blended fuel premix resulting in difficulty/impossibility maintaining proper jetting, and on the most basic level, 5) the plain fact that these engines far predate the use of alcohol blended fuels by decades. They simply were not designed to run on ethanol. These issues would likely be amplified as the alcohol fraction increases.

[thrownchain]

Yeah, what he said.

[matt glascock]

...and stuff like that

[MWL]

Run at least 50/50 pump premium/race gas or risk detonation or worse.

[Phil Finocchiaro]

I have seen cans of plain gas for sale but the price is outrageous. What about racing fuel? Seems to me when we went to mid-Ohio there were pumps with several grades of racing fuel. I didn't see any sign about ethanol. Just a thought if you live near a track.

Pop

[thrownchain]

Pure-gas.org will give you listings of stations that sell non E gas. Almost 11,700 of them.

[Bill2001]

Puregas.org is a good resource. I keep a select list of gas stations in my "travel area" and update the list yearly. And have a more select list of non-eth stations on my GPS.

[Bullfrog]

I know it sounds like a pain, but it is better to be running 6-8 month old non-ethanol fuel than fresh from the pump E-85 in our old Hodie engines. But more importantly, pick which fuel you are going to run and tune for it . . . and then NO switching back-and-forth. That is a recipe for disaster.
Ed

[hodakamax]

Ed is not kidding. Gasoline requires a air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1 were as alcohol requires 6.4:1 requiring much larger jetting for over twice the amount of alcohol as gasoline per unit or air. Really bad mileage on alcohol but power gains to be had. Something to consider is running more expensive pure gas in your engines but getting better mileage.
Max

[matt glascock]

On the subject of fuel, what is the party line regarding preservatives such as Sta-bil and Seafoam? 93 octane branded non-ethanol gas is about 15 miles away so I pick up 20 gallons and premix a couple gallons at a time. Safe or stupid?

[Bullfrog]

While I can't offer a review on the stabilizer additives, I can offer a thought about managing the fuel inventory situation. I purchase just enough fuel to handle my needs with enough extra to allow planning my next trip to purchase a new batch of non-ethanol fuel. That way I don't have so much gasoline on hand that it gets really old, and I don't have to do a 30 mile round trip on Friday night before an event weekend to get fresh gasoline.
Ed

[Bullfrog]

PS: For me, 5 gallons is my usual purchase of non-ethanol premium pump gas. But sometimes, when a couple of events are relatively close together, or when the event involves several days I'll purchase 10 gallons. So the purchase amount depends on how many machines are being used, how much riding is planned, how close together events are and how jam-packed domestic issues are going to be between events. If you get in a lot more riding than I do, then purchasing larger batches of gasoline makes good sense.
Ed

[viclioce]

I run Seafoam in my 1500 Suzuki, but it's designed to run on 87 octane.

Seafoam contains naphtha & also some type of alcohol to bond with water & carry it out the exhaust. So it's going to trap any water in the gas but I wouldn't run either in a Hodie! Also remember that unless you change your fuel lines to metal, the ethanol fuels are going to eat away at the rubber fuel lines & send it in granular form to your carb!
So skip the ethanol idea. Go with non-E fuels and the cost will balance out in the long run!

Remember, in 1974 Regular gas was 91-92 octane! ; D Victor

[matt glascock]

Thanks for the insight fellas. I usually burn through 10 gallons in about two weeks as, in addition to Hodies and Suzys, I run 93 in my modern SX bike. That said, last season with epic floods and a tornado to boot, that 10 gallons sat for 6 weeks as both our regional VMX friendly tracks and the Hare Scrambles course were under water. Thus the Seafoam. I'm going with your advice, Captain. Pay as you play. And thank you Victor. I didn't know Seafoam involved that dastardly alcohol.

[viclioce]

Yes Matt. They put it in there, (I don't know which type) to microencapsulate water in fuel. It was originally designed for outboard motors, so the need in that use is a lot greater.

All of the additives, Seafoam, Marvel Mystery Oil & mall fuel injector cleaners also contain naphtha. It's a very strong solvent which strips away varnish in fuel systems. It's a great cleaner but must be used in correct proportions to work effectively without damaging components. That stuff will strip paint right off metal!

Seafoam is also a pretty good fuel stabilizer, but again the alcohol increases the E rating of the fuel. So, you're better off using a non-naphtha stabilizer for 2 strokes. ; D Victor

[matt glascock]

Great info, Victor. How about Sta-bil? Does it feature the same brew? I'm starting to think the Captain's process of fresh gas every event is the way to go. Any I don't premix that is leftover I can just blow through my truck.

[viclioce]

I found Sta-Bill's website and it also says it helps remove weather in fuel. So I'm guessing it's going to be hard to find a product without alcohol?!?! Well, I guess stabilizing isn't the best route to go and fresh fuel is. Happy New Year!!! ; D Victor

http://sta-bil.co.uk

[Tom S.]

...Any I don't premix that is leftover I can just blow through my truck.

I've put leftover premix in my truck and it was fine. If I have some really nasty old gas to get rid of, it goes in my kid's beater car.

[taber hodaka]

STA-BIL keeps the fuel from going bad, Bad gas gums up every thing. STA-BIL will protect the fuel for a year or two if you use double strength. Rotten gas is hard on everything, carburetors especially. To get all you can out of your engine use fresh gas. Storing for months or a year I would recommend Sta-Bil. Read the label.------Clarence

[matt glascock]

Thanks for tracking down that information, Victor! It seems the general consensus here is fresh gas every time for our vintage 2-strokes. My truck drinks anything so there is the plan for any remainder. Can't argue with that. Thanks fellas, and a Very Happy and Prosperous New Year to all!!

Best,

Matt

[viclioce]

Couldn't agree more! In fact I need to drain the Wombat and mix some fresh fuel for it soon! ;D Victor