Transmission oil

[Hodaka250SL]

What is the proper type of transmission oil for a hodaka 250sl

[RichardMott]

I have had great success using synthetic automatic transmission fluid in my Hodakas. I like it especially when the bike is still a bit cold. I used to get some grabbing when I would put the bike in gear. It is probably a viscosity thing.

I am sure others will have their own optional about this, but I like the synthetic automatic transmission fluid for mine. I do not race. Only trials and trail riding.

[taber hodaka]

I have used automatic transmission fluid before. But I would recommend a traditional oil. Richard for not racing you sure fly by us some times. ------------Clarence

[bchappy]

I use Bel-Ray Gear Saver 80W as it is a really good trans oil and it is available. There are a lot of good modern oils for cycles and I would recommend using one that is available from your local cycle shop.

[---]

Here are a few, all good:

All are approved for use in air cooled engines with wet clutch. All are within a similar range of viscosity. The Bel-Ray is 75W, the Silkolene is rated 85W-90, the MTL is 75W (these three labeled as "transmission" or "gear" oil), and the Lucas is SAE 10W-30, labeled as "motorcycle oil." There are others.

[viclioce]

Here's what I use. It was recommended to me by Danny Cooke. ; D Victor

[Bill2001]

And remember, an "80 wt gear oil" is equivalent in "vicosity" to a "30-wt engine oil". Different "standards" are used to measure the different oils.

--Bill

[bchappy]

Hodaka250SL, you have a lot of recommendations and I think you can't go wrong with any of them. Just see what is available in your area.

[Hodaka250SL]

Okie day thanks everybody

[hodakamax]

All of the lubricants mentioned so far seem to fill the bill. Here's what I use in all my recent bikes which include a Yamaha XS-650, Kawasaki KLR-650, the farm Yamaha 4-wheeler and all Hodakas. All the ratings are listed and you can read up on this product. The bottom line is wet clutch and transmission rating.

Max

[viclioce]

Nice touch putting the clutch plates in the shot Max! ; - ) Victor

[hodakamax]

Also right side up! Nikon/Apple. I also turned the resolution up a notch. (Still plenty to go!)

[rdbrooks14]

This conversation comes up many times and there are as many opinions. I personally use NON-Synthetic ATF Type F. I am NOT going to get into any debates on what is the best. I have raced A LOT and never lost a tranny....So it works for me AND my clutches do not slip.

IF you are going to use ATF, I highly, HIGHLY recommend that you use TYPE F!! The other have additives that could make your clutch slip or grab... Just saying.

All of the other oils a certainly good options too...

[hodakamax]

I too used ATF in our early racers. The problem in using it today is that it doesn't have ratings for the type of use that we have in our motorcycles today. I personally only use lubricants that are rated for special applications such wet clutches and meshing gears. Extensive testing has been done to get these ratings and guide us in what lubricants are used in what applications. We probably could get by with pork or vegetable oil in a Hodaka engine but I'm sure that's not the best for it or has it been tested for that application. Also by not using synthetics you are limited to using only the molecules that come out of the ground (or additives) instead of designed molecules for special applications. Max's opinion, (and trying to stir up a discussion of course!)

Max again.

Ps--There are other reasons for using rated lubricants in that you can determine if they are also rated for 4-strokes which use the same oil for the engine. One less product to stock.

[Bill2001]

Goo dpoints, Max. Oil debates are always like Holy Water discourse. Back in the day we used 30wt non-detergent engine oil because it was recommended and available. Nowadays you can get an oil with the proper additive package for gears and wet clutches (whether id be a gearbox oil of an ATF) and no matter what brand, you won't go wrong. I tend to be a wee skittish of 100% synthetic, my old bikes develop leaky seals with that oil, but work well on a dino-syn blend.

IMO, and YMMV.

--Bill

[rdbrooks14]

Well..... Once again use whatever oil the spirit moves but I bet to differ ATF today does not have ratings we use in our bike. Type F rating has NOT changed and is highly recommended by many wet clutch manufacturers back then and today. When I put my Barnett Racing Clutch in my Harley the instructions were CLEAR to only use ATF Type F fluid. That was two years ago.. Again just want full disclosure here. I would rather use a GREAT Oil and change it A LOT than spend a bunch on overkill and be a little more stingy with the changes...

Sooo there you have it... Regardless of what you use, it is always good to know why you are using it....

A little bit one Type F Rating...

The frictional characteristics of an automatic transmission fluid are an important factor in the design and operation of the transmission. All Ford transmissions built prior to 1977, and certain models that continued in use during 1977-1980, were designed for a high-friction fluid that allowed the shifting clutches to lock up or engage quickly. Ford specification ESW-M2C33-F covers this type of product, which is commonly referred to as "Type F" fluid.

These vehicles are identified as:

All 1976 and earlier Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury models of cars, vans, and light trucks;
All 1977-1980 models having either ESW-M2C33-F or no number at all stamped on the transmission dipstick

Type F ATF is recommended by ExxonMobil for use in applications requiring Type F fluid as follows:

Automatic transmissions in certain older Toyota, Mazda, Volvo, and other imported vehicles that require an ESW-M2C33-F fluid. In addition, this type of ATF is specified for some Ford power steering systems.
For the makeup and refill in power steering systems of the following Ford vehicles:
1980 and older Lincoln, Continental, and Mark;
1978 and older models of all other Ford cars, vans, and light trucks
For anti-wear requirements of Sperry Vickers industrial hydraulic systems where low wear in the ASTM D 2882 vane pump test is the principal criterion.

Type F ATF is not recommended for automatic transmissions in Ford, General Motors, Chrysler, American Motors, or any other cars requiring a Dexron-II, Dexron-IIE, Dexron-III or Mercon-approved fluid, or for those Ford products requiring an M2C 138CJ (Type CJ) fluid or an M2C 166H (Type H) fluid.

[hodakamax]

Good report Bob. It looks like you did your homework. I guess what I'm saying is for those who didn't do their homework, How would they/we know? That's what ratings are for. I usually learn something when I stir things up. All good info and I think we all agree we want to think and be advised against some "Home Remedies" in life. I still didn't see Hodakas on ExxonMobil's list for Type F fluid--Just kidding!

Thanks for your input,

Max

[rdbrooks14]

Thanks Max... Yep, I have learned a long time ago about offering unfounded opinions as someone may action may take them Plus, if I said anything here without some basis of fact my good friend Cap't Eddie would rip me a new "opinion" LoL...

I do want to emphasis that all of the suggested fluids sound good to me but I also think I would steer clear of the synthetic stuff. But, if my pal Richard Mott is using it, there must be something too it. I have seen him rolling one handed wheelies through those trials sections and jumping from log to log.

[---]

Synthetic oil is simply made from a different base material than dino oil. It has different heat and cold characteristics. All synthetics have additives because the base material alone is not sufficient, but the same is true of petroleum oils.

As for causing leaks, I seriously doubt this. Not that someone's bike might have leaked while using such oil, but to attribute the leak to synthetics, I don't buy. It has nothing to do with vintage versus modern equipment. Synthetic oil was developed during WWII for aircraft use. As I recall, most WWII bombers and fighters used air cooled engines. I have used synthetic motor oil and automotive fluids since the '80's, including in my Hodaka, and no leaks. What I do find is that they flow better in cold weather, resist higher temperatures without failure, they last longer (synthetic base materials don't wear out - only the additives do), and they cost more. I use synthetic motor oil and diff fluids in my '68 Kaiser CJ5, which doesn't leak, and in my newer vehicles as well. I will even use it in my Dodge diesel if I am going to be making long distance pulls with the RV. I use synthetic trans fluid in my NV4500 manual transmission on the Jeep off road racer, which hasn't leaked in the many years I have had it. There just isn't anything about a synthetic oil that, in comparison to petroleum, raises a risk of leakage.

On the other hand I am not fanatical about the stuff. All modern motor oils are good products, including petroleum oils. But, if you are looking for cutting edge, extreme performance products, research the synthetics, like Red Line, Lucas, Amsoil, or even Mobil 1. In the ATF line, synthetic oils resist higher heat, but otherwise will perform only as well as the additive package included in that fluid.

And for Max, research these days is called "Google." It takes about ten seconds to find info on type F ATF or whatever it is you are curious about. Product labels may state ratings, but unless you actually know which rating means what, they are just letters. If you want to know what they mean -------- Google it.

[hodakamax]

Hey Greg, I'm in agreement about synthetics not causing leaks. We've all heard the story but no hard evidence to back it up. I remember the addition of detergent oils and that it was all supposedly bad. I worked in a Texaco station while going to college and began to notice that customers who requested non-detergent oil had crudy engines, some to the point of removing the drain plug and nothing came out due to sludge settling in the pan. Maybe Synthetic oil got a bad rap because it got by worn out seals because it lubricated better. Who knows. I do know that today all real race engines use synthetic oils because they are not tied to the limitations of fossil crude. Synthetics can be designed to address specific problems such as high heat situations. Fossil crude is limited to the molecules that are within and is always a compromise. On the other hand, engines are designed to use non-synthetic oils as long as they meet grade requirements. Synthetic only means synthesized but done properly with good chemistry can produce superior race lubricants for use in extreme environments and situations such as extended high RPM. Synthetic oils have not reached their potential limit as fossil lubricants have in that they can be even further synthesized for better performance.

As far as Googling Type F ATF, Why? This is designed for yes, automatic automotive type transmissions, not what I'm after. It's not rated for motorcycle transmissions even though it may work perfectly. My point is that if I want a proper lubricant for said machine, I review the ratings for such things that has been tested and labeled as such.

Hmm--good discussion!

Max

[MTrat]

Reading all of this transmission oil discussion reminds me of the guy who brought in his bike and the clutch wasn't working. Seems he figured STP was the real ticket. It sort of glued the clutch discs together...

[---]

I remember when STP came out. Mario Andretti commercials every hour. Makes your engine last forever, more power, etc. now, it is still out there but you never hear about it. I used it for a while and didn't find it helped much. I do use Lucas HD Oil Stabilizer in my Kaiser, especially in the transfer case, because it makes oil cling to stuff like mad, and it does quiet the transfer case. But I don't use such things in the Audi S4. It just depends on what I am working with.

I can't imagine anyone putting STP in a bike gear case. Or Slick 50, or any other friction modifier.

[taber hodaka]

The slickest thing about slick 50 was the feller that sold it to me. I bought my quart for $30.00, drove 200 miles and was out of oil including the 30 dollar quart. So it was back to bardahl and about 15,000 more miles on the engine. I am going to dig out the oil tester soon, you all have provided me with a list of your favorite oils to test.

[---]

The slickest thing about slick 50 was the feller that sold it to me.

Roger that.

[2Brothersvmxracing]

Hi Guys, I thought I would add a little more info to this post. We are using Amsoil 10w40 Motorcycle Oil (the newest bottles say Metric Motorcycle Oil on them) in all our Team Race Bikes including the Hodaka's. We have had discussions with their R&D division about this oil and have done some testing for them. It was designed for wet-clutches like we run in the Hodaka's. In the three years that we have been using Amsoil, we have had "ZERO" transmission failures. Some of you have watch us race the Hodies and we run them very, very hard with Championship results. When we drain the oil we run it through a cheesecloth to check for any engine or clutch damages and so far we have had no issues. Clutch wear is virtually non-existent. When the engines are torn down, everything is coated and looks great. The oil will turn a little dark after use, but this does not effect it's lubricant abilities. They also have a "Dirt" Oil, but this has been designed for the newer motorcycles and their clutch systems, so don't use it.---Terry