Finally got a Hodaka... Though it needs a bit...

[TheBevman]

Hello all, well I finally got myself a Hodaka. A '68 Ace 100 frame with a frozen motor, it was in my price range. And has paperwork, last reg in '76. Frame # A252**. Engine # P395** - any help on dating this motor would be greatly appreciated.

From the looks of it, it spent some time in the desert. The handlebars are re-enforced with portions of sections from another set of bars welded on. All the spokes are safety wired, really well too, as are many fasteners that were less than expertly drilled. (Still pretty cool though)

Well, got the motor out and soaking, piston is about 1/2" from TDC, Filled the gearbox with ATF and so far nothing's moving at all. I'm the patient type and willing to let it sit for a bit but I'm open to suggestions.

On a final note: I got my son, "Harry Hears a Hodaka" last Xmas and both he and his sister are inspired and excited about our little addition. While I'm at it I should note that my loving and understanding wife is excited too, though she knows I'm nuts and have a problem with old, neglected machines.

[TheBevman]

And the right side

[hodakamax]

This is how it all begins---

Maxie

[RichardMott]

BevMan,

By the looks of things, you are no stranger to motorcycles. The Hodaka is a fun, easy to work on piece of technology from the 60s and 70s that will be with us for many years as long as there are folks like you that have a passion for "old" broken down machines.

Have fun with your new project. The group here will help in ways you cannot begin to imagine. The collective makes resistance futile.

[Zyx]

I have successfully soaked stuck pistons loose but it takes time. I use diff lube like 75W90 or whatever. Seems to penetrate anything just does so slowly. I unstuck a 1945 evinrude 5hp outboard that had been locked up for years. Worked so well I never had to take it apart. Still running 30 years later.

[viclioce]

Welcome aboard! I've been through what you're going through now. I restored a 1979 Yamaha XF650S several years ago. Mine probably wasn't as rusted as yours! I sprayed WD-40 down the spark plug holes and let it sit for 24 hrs. Then I started pounding on the kick starter with a rubber mallet. It broke free and started. By the time the smoke from the WD-40 was gone she was idling smoothly.

Of course this wasn't a small 2 stroke motor. I would even try some PB Blaster to free your piston up. It works extremely well for bolts rusted into their threads so I suspect it would work for a piston ring frozen to the inside of a cylinder! Then it should move well enough to check the tranny.

Holler when you need help. Paul at Strictly Hodaka has OEM parts galore. When you can't find it with Paul there is also Hodaka-parts.com and Bill Cook has comparable prices. There's isn't anything you can't find from them. I turned this, into this!

[TheBevman]

Thanks All. I appreciate the kind words, it's always nice being around like minded people.

Max- you're right! Nothing else to say about it.

Richard- thanks for the kind words, as you can see I'm trying to pass the "bug" along to the next generation. I'm looking forward to polling the powers of the collective, as you can see, I'll be in trouble if I don't.

AZ and Vic, thanks for the hope. I'm using liquid wrench and Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinder, at the moment and ATF in the trans. I was thinking about trying to get some ATF, or something light, down to the crank and bearings. The intake lets a bit in there. Nothing's moving as of yet, still optimistic though. Also, I need to get some oil on the forks they're frozen too.
Vic, that's one heck of a transformation, nice work!

One question before I turn in for the night, I think the engine is a 100 (has 98cc on the cylinder after all) and it came to me with an ACE 90 magneto cover, don't suppose they'll work together. Will they?

Thanks

[Dale]

There is a good chance that the motor is an Ace 90 bottom end fitted with an Ace 100 top end.

The Ace 90 is bottom end will be a 4 speed (1up, 3 down) while an Ace 100 bottom end will be a 5 speed (1up, 4 down). So you are correct that an Ace 90 shift cover would not work with an Ace 100 bottom end.

[hodakamax]

In the early racing days a few 90 transmissions (mine) were converted from a 4-speed to a close-ratio 5-speed with a kit that included a 5-speed ratchet for the shifter case. A little grinding was necessary inside the shifter case to make it all work. You might run the case through the gears and see how many clicks that you have. Kind of a long shot, but it's possible you have a 5-speed shifter in a 90 case.(or you may be able to retrofit the 5-speed ratchet to that case.) Check it out and give us a report as you progress.

Max

[Dale]

Good point Max. I was aware of the 5 speed Ace 90 mod but did not know how the shift cover was handled. There is always an exception...

[hodakamax]

Dale, probably unlikely but possible. There was a Hodaka worksheet published on how to install the new 5-speed in your 90 and someone posted it on the Forum in the last year or so. I remember the mods to the shifter case but there was also machining to the crankcase. Hmm, that was a long time ago!

Max

PS--seems like it came with a new kick starter gear also. The later kit became the close ratio option for many later models. The part numbers all started with 91 as I remember.

[TheBevman]

Well, it's been a minute since I updated y'all on progress, unfortunately, there hasn't been much recently. I pulled the magneto/ ignition plate and the frozen clutch and found that the frozen piston was keeping the motor locked. After letting the cylinder soak for a 2 months I still couldn't get the piston to move. I then tried heat, to no avail. Moved on to igniting a mix of atf and kerosene in the cylinder. Even with that and some gentle persuasion there was no movement. In the end I resorted to violence and found that: big flame+ big socket + big mallet = one free piston.

After the ensuing tear down it looks like it was on the original bore. So, I'm in for new piston, rings and an over bore, bearings, seals, gaskets, fastener set and a few sundries that were missing on tear down. Still have some measuring to do, of course, but that's where we stand on that front.

I have sent the cylinder, cases and shift cover and crank to Hodaka Dave for bore, repair and checking, respectively.

Also, since Hodakas are relatively easy and straight forward machines to work on, As stated this is a family project so my son (12) and daughter (10) can learn and hopefully gain some confidence and experience in the mechanical arts.

With that said and most of the motor out having work, I need a bit of help identifying what tank I have so I can get the appropriate fuel cap and get started on started on it.

Many thanks.

[viclioce]

Looks like it could be the original fuel tank. The Aces have a smaller fuel opening & cap as did the Super Rats. So I would guess it's an original tank to the bike.

I was given a Wombat tank for my Ace 100 B+. I liked it because it has the larger opening. And this one wasn't rusted inside! ; D Victor

[TheBevman]

Viclioce, I wasn't sure if it was the original tank because of the later petcocks on it. The bike came with the small black Hodaka fuel cap, but it doesn't fit. Threads look good on both tank and cap, they seem close in size too, but just doesn't want to go and I don't want to force it for obvious reasons. Is there a difference in size between the red and black small fuel caps?

[Dale]

The small red and black fuel caps are the same size.

[viclioce]

Sometimes you just don't get the cap lined up straight and it feels like it won't go on. Rub a little 2 stroke oil on the cap threads, place it level on the tank threads and turn gently until you feel it grab. That's assuming you don't see any damage to the plastic threads on the cap.

The magneto covers are identified like this. If it says 90 or 100 in the middle of the magneto circle and Ace on the small rectangular shifter cover, then it's the older cover/shifter, 1 up and 3 or 4 down. If it says Hodaka in the circle over the magneto and has a blank cover, then you have a standardized shifter case that is converted to 1 down 4 up. ; D Victor

[---]

What I like about this post is your first post and photo. The He-Man with the bike is what this is about. When I was his age all I had was a bicycle, and I think I invented BMX but forgot to take credit. Here is a young rider who will be doing this long after we are gone. Do what it takes. It will not be money misplaced.

[viclioce]

Greg is absolutely correct! I'm on my third Hodaka restore. I did a Wombat 125 for my 15 yr old grandson. When I finished it (well, they're never really finished are they?), the 13 & 11 year olds came to me and said "What about US Bampa?"

So I got two more and have been working on them quite steadily since February of this year. Finished the Ace 100 B+ for the 11 year old and I'm almost done with the Road Toad for the 13 year old now.

They will remember what you did for them and for you introducing them to classic two stroke motorcycles, for the rest of their lives! Best of luck with yours and your project! ; D Victor

[viclioce]

This is the way my Ace looked when I picked it up! You've already seen one after picture. Here's one from the other side! Mine is a 1971 B+.

[matt glascock]

Bevman, there is an excellent resource for dating Hodaka frames and motors right here on this website. Check the "How to identify your Hodaka" section on the FAQ tab.

[TheBevman]

Thanks all for the help and kind words. Looks like I'm in it for a new gas cap as well, the threads are all buggered now on the old cap.

On to new business, the planets finally aligned and the kids and I found some time to get our hands dirty on our hodaka project. I picked up a donor '66 ACE 90 that has many good parts on it shortly after acquiring the 100. Today we went to it, with the goal of removing the front forks, the 90's shrouded set is in much better shape that the 100's frozen set.

So all went well, and parts are looking remarkably well too, until we got to the "circle nut," a.k.a the lower shroud. How do you get those little beasts off without trashing them? I've tried a strap wrench (like the manual instructed), heat and WD-40 all to no avail. Any insite would be greatly appreciated.

[Dale]

You will need something better than WD-40. A really good penetrating oil should do it. I use Kroil but it might not be available locally. Seafoam makes a pretty good one and can be found at local parts stores. These both contain magnetic properties that creep into the threads.

In addition, if there is strong evidence of rust, you could soak the whole joint in a rust remover such as Evaporust.

The rubber strap wrench should then do it with some heat from a heat gun applied.

[---]

I found this in an antique motorcycle forum:


"Machinist's Workshop magazine recently published some information on
various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you
might appreciate this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for
break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by an
ex-student and professional machinist. They arranged a subjective test
of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required
to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oils ........... Average torque load to loosen*
No Oil used ................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ...............127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF*-Acetone mix. ...........53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts
better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our
local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with
equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is almost as good
as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price. "

No explanation was given for what constituted a scientifically rusted environment, or, other than posting a result for a nut without oil, how the various test subjects were standardized. I have previously noted that oils other than your usual penetrating oils actually do work, some better than what is sold as penetrating oil. Here, someone has gone to the trouble of conducting a test. Of sorts.

I have found no reference material for the idea of a penetrating oil with magnetic properties. My observation would be that if something did exhibit a magnetic response to an iron bolt, it would do so without preference for threads versus shank. Perhaps what passes for magnetic properties is actually capillary action.

[Dale]

Well then both Kroil and Seafoam claims of magnetic properties are a lie. Simply stated, they work. Do as you wish. I tend to use what works and not what others claim anyways.

[TheBevman]

Ddvorak, thanks for the info. I was thinking they were a bit frozen but I wanted to poll the community to see if someone might have a Mcgyver'd solution. Looks like god ol' patience and liquid wrench are gonna win this.

AZshorty, thanks for the very useful info I plan on using the atf/acetone trick in the future. On this, if possible, I'd like to save the original finish. I like my bikes reliable and a bit tatty.