ACE Light Issues

[rdbrooks14]

All all Been a while...

I am still trying to get the lights working on my little ACE 100... Well every once in a while.

Sooo... Here is the deal. I have voltage on the YELLOW and GREEN wires going to the Headlight. I am connected from BLUE, YELLOW, GREEN on Harness to BLUE, YELLOW, LIGHT BLUE on light. There DOES NOT APPEAR to be an Emergency switch on this bike and the battery is DEAD so lights only work when bike is running right now. The Tail light and brake light have voltage and work. The Headlight works but when the High beam is hit it just dims...But that is no big deal to me.

The big deal is that as soon as the Headlight fires up, the tail light goes OUT. If you unhook headlight, then the tail light lights back up?????

Any thoughts on this? I just need a working head light (on filament is fine), tail light and brake light in order to right this on the street.

Hoping I am missing something simple like must have battery in circuit or something but it does not look like that on diagram....

Did I mention I had electrical stuff!

PS: The EMERGENCY SWITCH IS NOT on all of the ACEs as I understand it right? If it was there, where would it be? What does it do?

[Dale]

Bob,
Your statement about not all Ace's having an Emergency Switch is correct. The early Ace 100's do not. Their wiring is the same as an Ace 90 with the exception of the externally mounted coil. Here is a link to a post by Roger that gives some specific wiring information: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=490


If you had an Emergency Switch it would be on the bottom, backside of the headlamp bucket on the left side as you are looking at it from sitting in the saddle. It's purpose is to switch the headlamp operation from AC (normal operation) to DC (Emergency operation). I think it was Ed who most recently stated that the DC position provides headlamp operation for pushing the bike along the road or trail back home without the motor running.

I believe that your issue might only be the fact that you do not have a functioning battery in the circuit. Your lights will operate without it, but not properly. I would get a good battery in place and confirm your DC circuits are working (horn and brake lamp) and then start it up and test the headlamp and tail lamp. I suspect that it might be fine.
Dale

[rdbrooks14]

Dale, Thanks for your response. It was very helpful! I did not even think about using the ACE 90 diagram instead of the ACE 100 one with the E-Switch!

The E-Switch is what I thought it was - THANKS for confirming that !

Ok, I hear you on the battery but it is still odd. The Headlight works. The Tail and Brake lights work. But when Both are plugged in ONLY the Head light works... ODD and cannot see how battery is impacting this while running unless it.

I will have to get a battery. I could test DC operation with my battery charger I would think...

Ugh... I have a feeling a battery is NOT going to fix this. Also the wiring colors on the ACE 90 are not matching the ones in my headlight bucket so I must have a newer harness..

Thanks!

Bob

[MTRob]

Hi I saw on EBay a correct headlight with the Dark Blue, Light blue and Yellow wires.(ebay search hodaka headlight). Its a 6 volt stanley 35/24 watt headlight.Add says perfect fit. If your headlight is higher watt then it will take power from your tail light. If your harness is asking for those colored wires this my be you fix.
MTRob

[rdbrooks14]

I have the right light for sure.

I just messed with it more. This is old 10090 setup for sure.

when I plug the dark blue wire and complete headlight circuit in, not only does tail light go out but the bike runs terrible. misses off idle....

I grounded the headlight switch with a second wire.

Only thing I don't have now is a battery. Does anyone know for sure if there must be a battery in this circuit for bike to run right and both lights to work?

Odd....

[viclioce]

Sounds like you possibly might have a bad accessory coil on the stator. I would pull the flywheel cover off and check to see if one of the coils is burnt (or missing?). The bike runs on one stator coil for the the ignition and two additional For all the lighting components. Just a guess, without seeing it. Good luck! ; D Victor

[rdbrooks14]

Thanks! I guess it could be a coil but all three wires have voltage. I am going to get a Battery and put it in the circuit to eliminate that variable. Then on to more fun. Maybe I will just but a 6v battery on handlebars and run the light if I see a cop!

Bob

[viclioce]

It shouldn't be too hard to resolve. There's just not that much to the electrics on these bikes. Hang in there and eliminate the possibilities one by one until you figure it out. I would disconnect the headlight and meter across the contacts on the harness. See what readings you get and go from there. ; D Victor

[rlkarren]

In my opinion, troubleshooting lights without a battery for the DC circuit would lead to much frustration. I would respectfully encourage you to install the battery and make sure all the DC circuits are working correctly, and then tackle the AC circuits. You can keep the battery at full charge with a battery tender while you do your testing. You can test your DC circuit with the key in either position. The AC circuit can only be tested with the key in position #2, (night), with the engine running. The link that Dale provided earlier is very good for an early Ace 100 which uses the same diagram as the Ace 90. And as Dale mentioned, the early vs later models can be distinguished by the presence of the emergency switch.

To summarize: The DC circuit should be powering the stop light, horn, and speedometer light, (also the tail light on the early models when the key is in the 'night" position). The AC circuit is simple since it's only function is to provide power to the headlight, (and tail light if you have later model Ace 100 with the key in "night" position), and a trickle charge to the battery via the rectifier.

If you can verify your DC circuit is OK, the AC circuit is trivial as long as your coil is good.

I would also highly recommend that while you are troubleshooting either circuit, trace all the wires and make sure there are no shorts, broken or worn insulation, broken wires inside the insulation, and you have clean and tight fitting connectors.

$0.02

Roger

[Bill2001]

Good post, Roger. Unless you know that the wiring is good, it is a good idea to trace and verify the wiring and the connections. These bikes are 40-50 years old and not only is there wear and tear on the wires and connections there are also undocumented mods by a PO. I have a '72 that had a great refurbishment but first "rainy day Saturday" I get I'm going to pop the headlight, tank and seat and check the wiring A-to-Z.

--Bill

[rdbrooks14]

Thanks all,

If you read my posts... I did say the following. I am getting a battery. It is on the way now. I have AC Voltage in the correct amounts on all the right wires. I checked all of those points with the lights disconnected first. I also have printed out both wiring diagrams and own every Hodaka Shop Manual TYPE in print.

I was simply asking if the BATTERY was REQUIRED to be in the circuit for the bike to run correctly with the Light on in AC Mode and for the Tail Light to work. I was looking for the definitive answer to this one question. I know some of the old Hondas HAD to have a battery or they would act just like this - SL350 comes to mind for some reason.

I will find out soon when the battery is installed. I will certainly do the DC checks that were mentioned when I get the battery. Actually I could probably do them with my 6v Battery Charger with the ENGINE OFF. I may do this tomorrow...

Thanks for all the responses. I will update when I find my Demon!

Bob

[rlkarren]

Oh! looks like we got off track somewhere; it happens often. I'll try to answer your original question. I can see that my first response was camouflaged.

Technically, no, the battery is not required to operate the headlight in AC mode. However, the problem you might face is that the DC circuit shares the AC load and without the DC circuit load the head light is getting ALL of it and you increase the chance that the headlight will blow. So, not that it was ever required, but based on my own experiences, it is not recommended.

And finally, whether the taillight will work is dependent on whether or not you have the early or later Ace100. The taillight on the early Ace100's, (without the Emergency switch), ran on the DC circuit, the later ones on the AC circuit.

Summarizing again, you can test the AC, (operate the headlight and taillight), circuit without the battery, it is not required to function. Just be careful you don't over-rev, you can blow your bulbs. You can protect your bulbs with a voltage regulator though, even on the Ace's. Placement depends on early vs late model though.

I hope I got it this time.

Roger

[rdbrooks14]

Problem solved. Early Ace... Needs Battery in circuit. Key Position 1 is headlight only. Key Position 2 is All lights.

WIthout Battery in circuit the bike misfires of idle and tail light and horn will not work at all when head light is plugged in.

With Battery EVERYTHING works PERFECT!

Bob In MD

[Dale]

Bob,
Good to hear that the battery did the trick. I did believe that it would take care of the lights, but I am surprised about fixing the mis-fire... Could it be that the battery had a shorted cell and was drawing excessive current? Weird.
I have some questions for you.
Do you have a dimmer switch with 3 positions marked 0, 1 and 2? Mine does and the 0 is off, 1 is low beam and 2 high beam.
Also, what key does your Ace use? Mine uses one that I have not seen on other models and it is marked 6457. Like yours, my ignition switch has 3 positions.
Dale

[viclioce]

So now you know! Make a good note of this. I would also keep the battery on a tender for extended life! They really work! ; D Victor

[rdbrooks14]

Dale,

So first of all thanks.

Now, the was NOT battery in the circuit so the dead cell deal was not not.

I do have that dimmer switch and it works that way.

My key is the standard one that starts with a 3. I do have the three position switch.

I put a MODERN Sealed Battery in this thing. They are less messy and stay charged way longer. It was 10 bucks to the door. It was a tight fit on the height but I got it in and situated. I just put a modern in-line fuse in and away we go.

With regard to the other post about a battery tender. I have them on all my bikes... I just did NOT want to have a battery in this circuit if I did not have to do so. But now we know you do!!!

So I have a question... WHERE does on put the Voltage Regulator. I have one from a Wombat but not sure where to put it? It seems there are two separate circuits right? One for the headlight and the other for the Rest of the stuff. I also have a 12v Tail Light bulb like most run and that helps keep that safe....

Thanks again,



Bob,
Good to hear that the battery did the trick. I did believe that it would take care of the lights, but I am surprised about fixing the mis-fire... Could it be that the battery had a shorted cell and was drawing excessive current? Weird.
I have some questions for you.
Do you have a dimmer switch with 3 positions marked 0, 1 and 2? Mine does and the 0 is off, 1 is low beam and 2 high beam.
Also, what key does your Ace use? Mine uses one that I have not seen on other models and it is marked 6457. Like yours, my ignition switch has 3 positions.
Dale

[Dale]

Bob,
Thanks for the reply. My Ace 90 uses the same key are yours, but my early Ace 100 has a unique key. It appears to be stock, but perhaps it was changed out by a previous owner.

In regards to a regulator connection, it would be spliced into the green wire leaving the ignition switch(green to green and white to ground). It has been discussed that the Ace does not really call for a regulator due to its lower magneto output but that the Wombat 94/94A do really need them. I say better safe than sorry and if you already have a regulator go for it.
Dale

[rdbrooks14]

Awesome Dale and thanks for the info!