Ball receiver

[Modracer70]

Will a model 03 shift ball receiver work on other models?
Thanks, Dave

[dcooke007]

Hey Dave,
The 03 ball receiver will not fit the earlier 125's and looks like doesn't fit the 100's also. The 03 ball receiver diameter is too large to fit in the other model countershaft bores. The 03 control shaft would also have to be used on all of the earlier 125's and on some of the 100's. All this is academic unless you can increase the countershaft bore diameter or modify the 03 countershaft to fit the other models. This has been discussed on the old forum and that is about as far as the discussion seems to have gone.

Danny Cooke

[racerclam]

The O3 ball receiver as well as the 175 and 250s is NOT! as friendly as the other style, Harry and I have discussed this before and his words was its a bogus design. I actually designed and had
a bunch made to fit the 175 and 250s in the same manner as the old style . Shift effort is consideratly less with this design as well as quicker, since the balls are not side loaded and the receiver has 360 degree freedom .

Rich

[Modracer70]

Thanks, that's what I needed to know, sure is a different design.
Dave

[Bullfrog]

Harry and I also had an extensive discussion about the "fluted" ball receiver and we came to the same conclusion Rich mentioned. HOWEVER, WE WERE WRONG. READ ON TO FIND OUT WHY.

We both entered the discussion holding the belief that the shift might have to "wait" for 90 degrees of rotation for the flutes of the ball receiver to be properly aligned with the balls of the "next" gear. THAT BELIEF WAS SIMPLY WRONG (for both of us). The "flutes" of the 03 ball receiver are ALWAYS lined up with the next set of balls . . . so shifts can happen at any time, subject to EXACTLY the same "alignment" requirements as the original "pillow" type ball receiver. (ie, there must be NO LOAD on the balls in the "active" gear to allow the ball receiver to "release" from the active gear AND THEN the balls and the "pockets" of the "next" gear must come into alignment for the shift to be completed)

The fluted ball receiver design is not "bogus", even though for a time I thought it was too. It may, however, offer a different "feel" for shifting due to the "ramp shape" and other factors when compared to the original "pillow" type ball receiver.

Finally, (as already mentioned) -- no, you can't use the model 03 ball receiver in earlier model transmissions because it won't fit inside the countershaft.

Ed

[admin]

Sorry just catching this thread and what Ed say's is exactly how I remember things also. I had looked at reproducing the fluted ball receiver as an improvement to the earlier style ball receivers. That is where a lot of this discussion went back and forth over a period of time. There was a time that it was felt that there needed to be 90 degrees of rotation before the shift could take place but that was proven wrong later on. You can use the (03) Wombat fluted ball receiver in a Wombat,Combat, Super's etc.. with the 924601 countershaft but the inside of the countershaft needs to be enlarged by I believe 1mm. I had one precision ground to test and it did work.
Paul

[racerclam]

All sounds good in theory BUT! Having made the receivers for the 250s and tested . They sure make them shift better , Gerg watkins agrees with this also he has used several of them also Chapman runs one in Frankenstien with improvment also . Im sticking with it theory is just that , theory bot proof is proof.

Rich

[racerclam]

Hey Paul ! Just wondering if you ever installed the receivers that you got from me in Billy's bikes ?

Rich

[Bullfrog]

I suspect that the ball receivers you made had a different "entrance ramp profile" than the fluted ball receivers, that is likely to be where the perceived improvement came from . . . not from eliminating the flutes.

Ed

[racerclam]

Ed, I can say that I hand ground many times , installed and removed and reinstalled I dont know how many times before I got it right , But it was worth the effort. What ever you atribute the improvement to. I dont have technical blue prints of it just good old fashioned R and D

Rich

[Modracer70]

So racerclam are you saying that you hand ground the 03 receiver to fit a 100/125 shaft? Just total out side diameter and the groove where the balls ride?

Thanks, Dave

[Bullfrog]

No, I think racerclam (Rich) is saying that he made some "pillow" style ball receivers (same sort of general shape as the early ACE 90 thru Super Combat ball receivers) to fit in the 250 engines -- and that through trial and error, he developed a final shape and size which he has confidence shifts better than the fluted ball receiver which is stock in the 250 engines. (A concept and result which I do not doubt in any way . . . other than, it wasn't getting rid of the flutes that changed the shifting. It was the custom R&D'd "entrance ramp contour" that made the difference.)

Ed

[racerclam]

Thanks Ed you said it well

Rich

[thirdstone]

Hi Dave I spent a lot of time and effort a couple of years ago trying to fit the 03 in a 94 style counter shaft. By the time you grind the ball down to fit the little divots where the balls engage is greatly reduced to the point of no confidence. I never went any further , what Paul did is the only way to go if you want to fit one. Not sure if the shafts are case hardened inside, grinding would remove that . I just went with what Rich said. Let us know if you go ahead.
Kev