The Hodaka Club Forum

OK. So a few clutches have not been my friend lately. Aside from the Ace B clutch, (being discussed on another thread), I finally got my Combat Wombat motor to run properly, but the clutch was not tampered with on that motor and was replaced with the same spacers which were already there.

Initially, the clutch had what were probably 2, .030 clutch disc spacers, not the thinnest & not the most rigid.

But these 2 spacers alone gave way too much free play at the case lever. I ended up putting 2 .050 spacers and an additional 2 .030 spacers, for a total of .22 in spacers. In fact all the spare spacers I had. Giving what measured out to approximately 3/32” in free play on the case lever.

I can put the tranny in neutral. But just pulling in the clutch lever without raising the rpm will cause the motor to stall. Rev-ing the motor allows me to pull the clutch in, but depressing the shift lever from neutral to 1st gear causes an immediate stall. There is no feathering. The motor stalls with the clutch lever fully pulled in and shifting down to first.

Now, assuming this clutch was still in functioning condition, the clutch showed reasonable material left on the discs, I have not used this many spacers before. Does it need more? It would seem this is not a low mileage clutch because there were only .060 in spacers before disassembly of the motor. Additionally there’s a .010 piston in the motor so it was run long enough to wear out a piston.

I remember Matt mentioning he found a Dirt Squirt with what he thought was still a brand new clutch containing .26 in spacers behind the clutch disc.

So I still don’t get it. This put enough spacers until you get 3/32” of free play isn’t seeming to work for me.

HELP!!! I’m tired of a couple of clutches being my nemesis! Out of 7 bikes, I’ve only had 2 clutches behave non-productively. These others were pulled and put back in with the same spacers with which were on board and nice as you please, the clutches worked. 2-3 spacers was what they all had in them and the Speedo’s all said they had under 1500 miles on them.

Yet, the clutch in the Wombat Combat was shot. I blue printed per the Resonator article, installed the correct number of plates & discs for a Combat Wombat motor, added a few spacers until reaching 3/32” free play and THIS Combat wombat clutch works just fine!!! The clutch was loose in a box, not on the motor with any spacers & there were no spacers in the motor box. Motor was completely disassembled. And aside from not rebuilding and blue printing this Combat Wombat clutch, but setting the free play the identical way, it won’t work. Period.

Don’t shoot me, I just don’t get it. And yes, I am carefully measuring the free play. I move the lever to its bottom position and I measure up 3/32” and put a pencil mark on the case and add spacers until the lever moves from the bottom position to the pencil mark and stops. The roller bearing is in place inside the case. Free play testing done with gasket between cover and case. Where am I going wrong? Victor

You have the proper number of spacers. You have proven that by measuring the freeplay at the end of the clutch lever on the engine.

The spacers are not the problem. The problems are "in" the clutch. All the spacers do is, well, fill "space". For the clutch you are working on - if you were to take out a spacer, you'd have too much freeplay. If you added another one, you wouldn't have enough freeplay.

The problem you report is clutch drag (clutch not fully releasing). Several things can contribute to that:
- using old fashioned non-detergent 30 wt. motor oil per the 50+ year old factory recommendation will be more "draggy" than using a modern oil formulated for use in motorcycles with wet clutches. (70 or 80 wt. gear oil is the viscosity equivalent of 30wt motor oil - the two types of oil are rated with different viscosity scales)
- warped steel clutch plates
- burrs on the edges of the steel clutch plates
- wear divots on the internal teeth of the clutch cage
- steel plates catching on the threads of fully threaded clutch screws (factory screws have smooth shanks and rolled threads to prevent this from happening)
- other?

At any rate, the problem is not with the spacers (you've "nailed" that) - the problem is in the clutch.
Ed

Vic if I'm understanding you correctly I think you are saying that with the bike in neutral and idling when you pull in the clutch lever the bike stalls, still in neutral. This would be something more than dragging plates. Something is wrong with the clutch outside of the actual plate stack. I will leave it up to the experts to suggest possible causes but I just wanted to make sure that everyone understood your issue.

DOH! I allowed myself to get distracted by other information in Vic's post - and didn't absorb the sentence about simply pulling in the clutch kills it. (Maybe I should slow down, I'll go faster. ) That changes everything!

So we have a situation where the application of "designed in" pressure side ways in line with the center of crankshaft (meant to dis-engage the clutch) - causes the engine to stall. This tends to suggest that the whole crank is moving sideways when the clutch lever is grabbed or there is a missing part somewhere. Possibilities include: (in no particular order)

- clutch side main bearing loose fit in cases - or missing the snap ring
- bad clutch side main bearing
- missing 944016 (thick thrust washer next to bearing) - I think this might be the first thing to check. Missing this part would mean that the clutch is not truly "tight" to the crank even when the clutch nut is tight. This piece provides for a "tight" stack of steel between the crankshaft bearing shoulder "inside" the engine and all the way out to the underside of the clutch nut.

Dang! Sorry I missed that sentence in the symptom description!

Clutch side bearing & all bearings are new. All new bottom end kit installed. I always do this because I split the cases. Snap ring in place as well. I’ll have to drain & check, but pretty sure washer 944016 is in place behind the pinion gear.

I’m having hand surgery today. So it will be several weeks before the stitches come out. And it’s my dominant hand to boot. In fact I need to be there in less than 2 hours.

But, as soon as I am able, I will check to confirm. That thrust washer is not something I’m likely to forget. I did put it on in the wrong order once, on another bike, but figured that out a long time ago, so I don’t expect it to be something I would forget this late in the game. I’ll let you know when I get it checked out.

Finally, not an oil issue. I use the oil recommended to me by Danny Cooke. It’s Klotz Flex Drive 30 full synthetic. Has never been an issue in the past. So oil is definitely not the issue. Victor

best wishes for a speedy recovery!
Ed

It went well! Thanks!

Good to hear your surgery went well! Wishing you a quick recovery. I can't wait until you are back at it so that I can keep learning. Yes, I'm a lurker on your posts. Always good info.

Jay

Thank you Jay! Victor

I can take off the bandages tomorrow (Monday) after 4 pm. I’ve been pain free for 2 days now and can touch my left thumb to my other 3 unbandaged fingers. Tuesday I can shower without a zip lock bag on my left hand. I’ll try to do as much movement as I can. Dr. advises it will help in the non-production of scar tissue. I go back to the Dr. for a follow up on Sept. 2nd. Victor

Hand cleaned up well and looks good. 14 stitches in all. The lower incision isn’t connected to the mid-finger incision.

It will likely be another two good weeks before I get back to work in the bikes. Finger is still swollen and stiff. As the swelling subsides, I should be able to flex the finger more.

It always seems to be your dominant hand or foot for which stuff like this happens. But, I knew what I was in for when I said go for it. Victor

thats going to be a nice scar you can tell the grand kids some good storeys with that one hope it heals good for you...albert

Well, The Captain was Correct. For some reason, I didn’t put the Thrust Washer behind the pinion gear bushing.

Got it apart this afternoon. My hand isn’t working great, but I put some nitrile gloves on and took things apart. Now it’s back together, and I’m about to refill the oil.

I’ll report back if the clutch is working correctly after filling the oil & starting her up. Stay tuned.... Victor

Hmmm. Went to kick start it and there’s no resistance at the kick lever. Looks like I need to redo the clutch disc spacers, now that the thrust washer is back in the correct location.

Tomorrow. Time for dinner..... Victor

I had a pretty serious hand surgery decades ago, all went well thank goodness, but the recovery took a while. Hope your healing keeps going perfectly. Keep those wounds clean and protected, my friend.

-Stever

Stever. Mine is looking good. I got all my stitches out by Tuesday & saw Dr. for follow up on Wednesday. He did order PT & I go for my Evaluation on Wednesday. Here’s how it looks today!

Can’t quite straighten it all the way, & can start bending it some now. I have a good pinch with my thumb already and am squeezing yellow clay from my last surgery PT.

OK. Clutch disc spacers adjusted. Started bike. Ran for about 5-8 seconds and stopped. Wouldn’t start again. Damn thing is going to be the death of me.

It’s a stock Combat Wombat with a .010 bore/piston. When I pull the plug I get spark on every kick. Now I guess I check the plug for wetness and possible float overflow...... Geeze.....

It ran fine before. Nothing has been changed. I may leave it alone until my hand is a little more flexible..... Victor