The Hodaka Club Forum

Hello again boys, well I took my first ride this morning around the block a few times with my Road Toad. The clutch is definitely slipping as some here suggested it was going to do. First time I really rode it and paid attention to what things sounded like and felt like. When I am driving along and give it some instant throttle, the engine revs up instantly but I get very little bike speed-up response ..... I guess that indicates a slipping clutch so I gotta take out some of those clutch spacers.

So, I have the clutch cover off now, and the cable is removed from the clutch lever at the cover location. Pretty straight forward, and I recovered that little activating nub (# 68 in the parts book) that I was warned about, it fell out when the cover came off. I'll make sure it gets back into place when putting things back together (held with thick grease). To my pleasant surprise, the clutch disc (#38 in the parts book) and the associated spacers are all removable without any unbolting, etc. My bike had four spacers in place, all four are 20 thou each in thickness so together the bike had a total spacer thickness of 80 thou. Maybe that was the way it came from the factory, who knows?

So, my obvious question of those who know here at the forum is this ...... how many of these spacers do I remove? Is it a trial and error process like one at a time? Any suggestions as to how many I might need to remove?

Let's say someone here suggested removing two spacers (40 thou) to start. Here's how I would imagine doing it and checking it ....

1) Keep two of the spacers out and replace two of them back into the assembly and put the little nub in place (with thick grease)
2) Position the side cover in place against the gasket and press tightly (or maybe even bolt up the cover snugly).
3) Check for the 3/16" (or whatever is recommended) slack in the clutch lever
4) If that works out as outlined, then put it all back together as it is, no more checking needed.
5) If it didn't work out that perfectly (lever slack not correct), remove one spacer or add one (depending on what the problem was) and check it again.
6) Continue until you get the recommended lever slack ..... etc etc etc.

The gasket that is in place looks good, it is not leaking now. It has been glued to the engine case with gasket cement (maybe Permatex or something like that). I think I would leave it but wipe everything dry and reassemble. Or maybe just a thin layer of Permatex on the clutch cover side of the gasket just to seal things up for sure. I'd check for leaks afterwards.

As usual, replies are welcome and appreciated. MIKE

Your plan is right on target. If it were me, I'd remove to spacers, reassemble the cover onto the engine and check clutch lever freeplay. If it checks out anywhere between 3/32" and 1/4" -- I'd just go with that.

No need for sealant/stickem on the gasket.

Ed

To answer your question about the shims, there is about a 10:1 mechanical advantage from the clutch hand lever to the clutch disc movement. In other words, the clutch cable movement is about 1/2 inch. The total throw of the little dowel in the clutch cover is about 0.050. 1/2 inch, which is 0.500, divided by 0.050 is 10. That's what I mean by a 10:1 advantage. So, for example, if you have 3/16 play at the engine lever and you are looking for 3/32, then that's a difference of 3/32, or 0.093. Divide that by 10 and you get 0.009. So in that case I would add a shim close to nine thousandths, I usually have some eights and twelve thousandths on hand for some reason. Trial and error also works just fine and is what most guys do. But you asked !!!!!! By the way, my engine requires almost 0.100 of shims so I think yours is not unusual.

So to summarize all of this ...... to increase the engine clutch lever slack, remove shims. To decrease the slack, add shims. When this all started, I was dealing with no engine lever slack at all (and noticeable clutch slippage), the lever was bottoming out on the case. So tomorrow I'll start with removing two of my 20 thou spacers which will get me started and see what happens with that change. I just realized that when I bought the bike, there were a few shims in a little envelope that I hadn't seen before. I have a couple of 10 thou spacers in there which will allow me to do some fine tuning of this as compared to just having only 20 thou spacers to work with. I'll report in once I get this finished up.

Hercules,

The shoulder on the throw out piece is only 0.20". Surely you don't have to fill half of that space with shims? 0.10" is about the same as 2.5mm, which is the thickness of one friction disc. You didn't leave out a disc did you? Just seems like a lot to shim.

I am talking about the shim spacers between the throw out bearing and the clutch face plate. Mine requires 0.100 worth there to achieve 3/32 play at the engine lever. I have the right number of friction discs. My friction discs are about 0.080 inches thick. Paul measured some NOS discs in his stock and some did measure 0.080, although his reproduction ones measure 0.100, which I believe the book says. And my plates are not worn at all. I think mine might require a lot because the engine clutch lever, which pushes the throw out dowel piece, is somewhat loose in the clutch cover. By the way, more plates, or thicker ones would require even MORE shims !!!!

. . . and let's not forget that there are three different "throw out bearings" with differing dimensions on the shoulder height.
Ed

Bullfrog wrote:. . . and let's not forget that there are three different "throw out bearings" with differing dimensions on the shoulder height.
Ed

There you go. Without more data, your results may vary.

Just thinking that where an average shim stack might measure 0.02", 0.10" is a lot of shims. The relationship between the clutch rotor and the side cover can be impacted by the parts count, including the thrust washers used at either end of the pinion bushing. If I had to use a tenth of an inch of shims, I would be back checking the build from the bearing out. On the other hand, if yours works that way, ride it.

You also might want to check that the pressure piece is the proper one and that there are no defects nor cracks in your clutch cover throwing off the alignment and tolerances. You never know...someone might have lost the stock pressure piece and thrown in whatever roller bearing they could get their hands on in a pinch to put the bike back into service. Much stranger things have happened in DPO land.

Remember when we sell it,we are the DPO. ----------Clarence

Haha! Good Clarence. That's why I'll never sell them. I'm hoping my great great great great great grand kids will ride them. Can you imagine hitting the trails on a 200 year old Hodaka .

It isn't hard to confuse the clutch pressure piece for one of the kick start roller bearings. They aren't the same piece. Same diameter, but not the same length.

Edit: Ed points out that the pressure piece I used for a photo in your other thread was owner modified. Comparing part numbers in various models suppports this conclusion, so the kick rollers and clutch pieces should be the same part, same length. At least in theory. There are very few NOS parts in their original wrapper laying around for a comparison.

Hey Hydraulic Jack, I don't want to hijack this thread so I started YET ANOTHER NEW CLUTCH thread. Seems like a rash of clutch issues lately. Please see my new thread called MORE CLUTCH QUESTIONS. Thanks, go_hercules.