Road Toad 100 kick start question ......

[Alberta Mike]

There are no shop manuals for this bike, at least that's what I am told. I have the owners manual which also has part diagrams. My Hodaka Road Toad 100 only has about 1200 miles on the odometer so I don't think anything is worn out yet. The problem I have is that the kick start lever only engages about half way down the kicking stroke.

As a result, it really doesn't turn the engine over too much when kicked, maybe just one compression stroke. The return spring works and returns the kick lever back to the top where it rests against the rubber bumper. Any suggestions as to what might be the problem? Maybe the small amount of engine spin is normal when kicking it over, not sure.

It appears as if the lever will come off the shaft easy enough (one bolt will do it) and then there is a cup-like shield around the shaft which encloses the return spring underneath. At least that's what I can figure out from the parts diagram. I'm just a bit leery about pulling this apart, I don't want to experience a surprise parts explosion when I pull the spring shield off, that's happened to me before on some of my projects.
Edit post

[Alberta Mike]

I edited the above post and the change shows up now ..... so it now reads as it should.

[Hydraulic Jack]

Mike,

Your problem won't be found under the spring retainer. Feel free to pull the cap and spring off as they are easy enough to put back on.

The problem is much more likely to be inside the cases. The kickshaft has a five lobe ramp inside with essentially roller bearings that ride the ramps. Over this is a metal sleeve with corresponding slots to locate the rollers, which when ramped out by pressing down on the kick shaft, will engage the inside of a gear cup which rotates the engaged counter shaft gear and primary gears. Sounds complex but it isn't. The kick gear is constant mesh as are all the drive gears. If the engine has been kicked vigorously over a long time, the roller cage wears and spreads, and the rollers then don't make solid contact with the gear cup. Friction alone drives this cup, so if the rollers don't line up immediately on the ramps, they don't engage the cup and don't spin the engine. It should only take a short stroke for the rollers to engage. If the roller retainer is worn, spread, or broken, it can take a long stroke to engage, or may not engage at all, or even if it does engage, the rollers will slip and not spin the engine.

Long story short, there is a modern manufacture roller guide available that is far more substantial then the original stamped steel part which will restore full function, but the only way to install it is to split the cases. If this is outside your wheelhouse, find a good Hodaka mechanic here on the forum and send him your engine.

As for the manual, find one for an earlier model, such as the Ace 100. The process and parts are virtually identical to your later model, and a lot of the parts will even interchange. If you decide to try this yourself, get a manual first and study the text and photos. It isn't hard to do, but can be quite daunting if you have never disassembled an engine and transmission before.

[BrianZ]

The kick roller retainer on the Toad is a substantial part, revised after the problems encountered on earlier models. I doubt that is your problem. The actual kick start shaft ramps can wear, but this usually results in a kick start that slips and won't engage properly.

What model Toad do you have, the round tank or later square tank version? The earlier models had an oddly shaped kickstart that folded out into the "already half way down" position. There isn't much kick travel on these models.

[Alberta Mike]

Hi Brian. My bike is a '76 (Mfg date 02/76), the serial number starts with the letter L. And from your description it would be the square tank model (well, not really square but it has definite creases in the tank tin when stamped out). When you fold this out to use it, it is in the full up position. I bought it from a young fella about 25 years ago up north here and it was his dads. His dad was a snowbird from Canada and bought it in Phoenix brand new and just used it to tool around between the mobile home park and town for shopping, etc. It's been in my basement since I bought it and it is now out in my garage and I want to get it on the road. It only as 1100 original miles and looks new, the tires are still the original Nito brand and are hardly worn. That being said, I doubt anything mechanical is worn out. There is no slippage when kicking the kick start lever, I'm sure of that. Actually, my original post here on this site might have exaggerated a bit ..... the kick lever goes down about 1/3 of the full stroke distance (not 1/2) before it engages. Maybe I'm stressing over nothing here. Once I get this thing running this week and run it a bit, then I'll have a better feel for how this kick start thing pans out. I'll let you know what happens, thanks for the reply.

[Alberta Mike]

Mike,

Your problem won't be found under the spring retainer. Feel free to pull the cap and spring off as they are easy enough to put back on.

The problem is much more likely to be inside the cases. The kickshaft has a five lobe ramp inside with essentially roller bearings that ride the ramps. Over this is a metal sleeve with corresponding slots to locate the rollers, which when ramped out by pressing down on the kick shaft, will engage the inside of a gear cup which rotates the engaged counter shaft gear and primary gears. Sounds complex but it isn't. The kick gear is constant mesh as are all the drive gears. If the engine has been kicked vigorously over a long time, the roller cage wears and spreads, and the rollers then don't make solid contact with the gear cup. Friction alone drives this cup, so if the rollers don't line up immediately on the ramps, they don't engage the cup and don't spin the engine. It should only take a short stroke for the rollers to engage. If the roller retainer is worn, spread, or broken, it can take a long stroke to engage, or may not engage at all, or even if it does engage, the rollers will slip and not spin the engine.

Long story short, there is a modern manufacture roller guide available that is far more substantial then the original stamped steel part which will restore full function, but the only way to install it is to split the cases. If this is outside your wheelhouse, find a good Hodaka mechanic here on the forum and send him your engine.

As for the manual, find one for an earlier model, such as the Ace 100. The process and parts are virtually identical to your later model, and a lot of the parts will even interchange. If you decide to try this yourself, get a manual first and study the text and photos. It isn't hard to do, but can be quite daunting if you have never disassembled an engine and transmission before.

THANKS JACK ..... lots of good advice in your reply. I will look around for an Ace 100 shop or repair manual. If you read my reply to Brian today, you'll see that I am probably not into a big problem with this, maybe no problem at all. Anyways, I'll come back and report in to let you know how this all goes.

[dirty_rat]

One other thing to note, usually when the kick starter shaft, retainer, etc. are worn and you try to kick the bike over you will hear a screeching or grinding type noise coming from it. This is because the parts are slipping instead of engaging and it sounds awful. So, if you can kick the bike over without the noise and the kicker engages and turns the engine over, you should be good to go.

[viclioce]

My Model 99 Toads don't have a whole lot of kick start lever travel. I am guessing maybe 60-75 degrees of roatation.

You can pull the fly wheel cover off with just 3 screws. Then have someone else kick it over for you and watch the fly wheel & count the revolutions. You should get like 3 full revolutions on a single kick. If you don't, then something could be worn as described by Jack in the retainer bearings. If it rotates freely, then your problem is elsewhere, fuel or spark. These bikes don't kick over with the kind of force it takes for a Harley the same age. Victor

[taber hodaka]

Just a note on manuals the original Ace 90 was the manual and the ace 100 and others were supplements. I do not know when and if that changed. Clarence

[Bill2001]

That is the way my recently-bought Hodaka manual is. The manual is for an Ace 90 with.supplements up to 100E.
Has a lot of old how-to info