Just picked up a nice '73 Dirt Squirt with the chrome tank. This thing is SOOO fun, far more than anybody would think. (But I assume you all know that, being that you're here.)
Anyway, a small problem cropped up and I am wondering if y'all can help me.
I think the kill switch is bad since it just started not giving me spark no matter if the switch is in "Off" or "Run". I troubleshot it and found out that if I kick it over and, while the engine is spinning, move the switch from "Off" to "Run", there will be one or two sparks while the switch is somewhere between "Off" and "Run", but once in "Run", no spark.
Is this as simple as replacing the kill switch? If so, I'll order a new one tomorrow. I took the entire switch apart and cleaned everything with contact cleaner and a points file. No dice.
Are the Dirt Squirt switches still available? It appears to be a regular kill switch off of any ol' motorbike, so it doesn't look THAT unique.
Could it be something more?
Please help, I wanna get this thing back on the road and get back to enjoying it!
Thanks!
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Forum Admin - 04/02/07 at 9:57pm
Groovie congratulations on your new bike ! I have a very special spot for the Dirt Squirts. First Harry came up with the name and second my daughter Amy's bike is a Dirt Squirt.
You said it is a 1973 Dirt Squirt but has the Run/Off switch. Could it be a red tank 1975 Dirt Squirt ?
The 1973 and 1974 Dirt Squirt had a push down kill button that worked pretty well. Unfortunately the Run/ Off switches that you turn to Run or turn to Off seemed to fail quite a lot. I have removed them from all of my personal riders for this reason.
If I could suggest to ask you to pull the two wires apart from the kill switch that join at the upper coil under the gas tank. ( blue and black wires) . This way you will bypass the switch and see if this makes the bike run.
The 1975 ( 01 ) Dirt Squirt used this switch as stock as did the 250's , Road Toads,175SL and the 03 Wombat. I am in the process of having these switches improved and remade but I personally do not have any in stock. We will have them in two months. If your bike is a 1973 or 1974 chrome tank model then the black rubber push down button would be correct and we do have those still available.
I hope this may help.
Paul
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GroovieGhoulie - 04/02/07 at 10:54pm
Indeed it IS a chrome-tank model with an E serial number, built in November of '73.
It's got some non-standard parts, like the fenders, but for a rider, it's perfect. It has the Dirt Squirt Light kit, which really adds to the practicality of the machine.
It does have the later kill switch, but I think that it was probably fitted sometime during its life. If you have the correct switch, I will be calling you tomorrow morning. I am going to try and unhook the switch and see if that helps.
Thanks!
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GroovieGhoulie - 04/02/07 at 11:17pm
Well I just unhooked the ground under the tank and there was big, blue, powerful spark! And lots of it!!! And there was much rejoicing.
I'll be ordering a proper black button first thing.
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GroovieGhoulie - 04/03/07 at 10:20pm
Well I jumped the gun a little. Bike ran fine all day today, but after stopping a few minutes ago, I went to re-start and nothing. Tried to push-start when my leg got tired. Nothing.
Pushed it about 1/2 mile home and pulled the plug. No spark.
What could be causing it now? The switch is totally out of the circuit.
I can see some big work ahead tomorrow.
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Earl - 04/03/07 at 10:49pm
One of the wires probably found a way to ground shorting out the spark (like a kill switch). Double check all of your wires to make sure they are taped off well and there are no bare spots that can touch metal. Earl 8)
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Forum Admin - 04/04/07 at 8:32am
Michael also you may want to pull the flywheel to check and clean the points and also inspect the wires that go around the magneto like Earl suggested. I have seen many times the blue or black wire from the points and or condenser rub against the crank and wear the insulation off. This causes the loss of spark. But seeing you just purchased the bike and it had sat for a long time my first thought now is that a piece of crud has gotten in the points and caused your loss of spark.
If it were my bike I would pull the flywheel and inspect the wires. Then clean the points using a spray can of brake clean.
I was not able to get your order out yesterday but it is boxed to be shipped this morning. If you like I can send you a flywheel puller and a clutch/ flywheel holding tool to borrow so you can easily pull the flywheel. Just send them back when you have a chance. I know I can trust you especially after our great talk yesterday. Unlike poor Earl who still has not received his tools he loaned Shawn last year.
Let me know please Michael if you would like me to send them to you.
Paul
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GroovieGhoulie - 04/04/07 at 12:52pm
Checked all the wires and none were worn through and grounding. Both the blue and black coming from the magneto seem to be alright. Could it be the coil? The spark got intermittent for a bit, then nothing, again.
Indeed, my next question was how to pull the flywheel. It just keeps turning and turning when I turn the socket.
I pulled the side case and there was some water in there, maybe from when I washed it. I poured it out, figuring it wasn't helping anything.
From what I could see the points needed to be cleaned, gapped and dressed, possibly replaced. They were filthy. Are new points still available?
I might try spraying some cleaner in there now without pulling the flywheel, and see what happens. If you could send the tool with the order, I will get it RIGHT back as soon as I'm done with it.
Also the mag cover didn't have a gasket, but someone had used "HondaBond" or a similar gasket paste to seal it. I have some of the Honda stuff leftover from sealing the crankcase on one of my other bikes. Would it suffice here?
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Forum Admin - 04/04/07 at 3:51pm
Hello Michael,
First I would like to say how nice it is to have someone who is 26 years old to join the Hodaka family. It is nice to see someone of your age appreciate these old machines.
Your flywheel is turning because you need to hold it back. Here is a photo of me using the flywheel holding tool I have sent you along with the flywheel puller.
This way you see how to use it. Be sure not to hook a coil when you hold the flywheel from turning. These tools will make your life easier for sure.
The upper coil going bad is a possibility but from past experience this would be the last place to try if all else fails.
Yes water for some reason makes it hard to get good spark so by all means try and get rid of it if you can. The brake cleaner will remove it from the magneto when you spray and let it dry.
Yes points are available for $ 12.50. Not a sales pitch but you may want to change both the points and condenser at one time. This set is $ 18.95.
The magneto cover did not use a gasket except the metal inner gasket used to keep mud and dirt from the inside of the shifting mechanism. I personally do not use any sealant but have seen where people have. I will most likely be corrected but I feel that the magneto condensates by being cold and getting hot. If you seal this so the moisture cannot evaporate then coils and points will corrode and eventually go bad. Before I ride an enduro or ISDTRR where I know I am going to be in water I remove the flywheel or if it is a PVL ignition the magneto cover. I spray the ignition with brake cleaner and let dry. Then I spray the ignition with wd-40 to repel any moisture. I find it is especially important that on my 250's or 175's that after I wash them I loosen the magneto cover screws so that the air get's in and lets everything dry.
I hope this helps you get your squirt back on the trails.
Paul
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GroovieGhoulie - 04/04/07 at 4:04pm
Not to sound cheap, but I'm gonna see if I can try and save the existing points and such right now. It was running like a dream, then the switch was acting up, then it was perfect again, now, nothing.
I'm having a booger of a time finding a points file, but I think I'll use an old nail file, then clean the points with some points/contact cleaner and keyboard duster compressed air. Then I'll set the gap with some feelers here.
Which raises the question, what's the proper gap setting for these machines?
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Earl - 4/04/07 at 9:44pm
Paul don't you mean contact cleaner instead of "Brake" cleaner??? Most Brake cleaners are hard on plastic parts like wire. Earl ???
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Forum Admin - 04/05/07 at 5:51am
Earl I have used both in the past. I had never thought about the effects of the brake cleaner being hard on the plastic but thanks for the heads up. I stand corrected.
Thanks Earl.
Paul
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Bullfrog - 04/05/07 at 10:43pm
I'm partial to carrying a strip of 400 grit wet-or-dry sand paper in my wallet for that occasional point "polish" and clean. I also make sure that I have a business card which is plain business card stock - not glossy or "varnished" - so I can tear a strip off the card for the final cleaning of the points after using the wet-or-dry out there in the pucker weeds.
You can rotate the flywheel to open the points for insertion of the sand paper strip, then lightly close on the wet-or-dry abrasive paper for the "sanding/polishing" stroke. Turn the wet-or-dry over to get the other face. Finish with the strip of business card . . . closer up, and away you go.
Toaster tank Dirt Squirt ignition timing spec. is 25 degrees Before Top Dead Center (+ or - a little bit). Set the points for .012" to .015" gap when they are open and that's the timing you'll have.
Ed
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GroovieGhoulie - 04/06/07 at 12:58am
Ed, It very well could be my problem, but the points are not open at all when the "window" in the flywheel passes by. They are closed up tight. I'm thinking they open when the solid part of the flywheel is over them, but from what you just said, they should be open when the flywheel window is there, otherwise how can you get a file and business card in there?
Unless you carry a flywheel puller tool with you to the bush, and if you do, I say, BRAVO!!! That is awesome. (I am not being sarcastic. I really do think it's awesome.)
The timing specs are very helpful. When I clean and gap them, I will use that.
Which leads to another question: when setting points is it best to just set the gap, or use a dwell meter and set the dwell? Does it really matter with these bikes?
I ask because my first motorcycle love is the SOHC four-cylinder Hondas from the '70s and while I've gapped their points, guys say that the only way to set the points on them properly is to use a dwell meter.
Now to give you an idea of how far apart these bikes are, (if you didn't grow up then and you don't know already), the HEAD of my Hondas have more parts than the entire Hodaka ENGINE! I think this level of simplicity is awesome. But it also raises the question of: Do these need to be set by dwell, or can they be simply gapped?"
I know, I was mentally damaged by starting to ride on such complex machines.
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Bullfrog - 04/06/07 at 11:52am
There is no "dwell" adjustment on a Hodie. Just "gap" the points and you have set the timing. As a matter of true precision, "gapping the points" sets the timing fairly closely and is easy to do, but using a "buzz box" and dial indicator will more precisely set the timing.
? Were you looking through the wrong "window" for the point opening? Look for the timing mark on the flywheel, it will be on the top side (near the timing marks on the case) when the points open.
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GroovieGhoulie - 04/06/07 at 2:56pm
Found the most likely source of the problem. One of the wires under the flywheel was worn through by the flywheel.
The white wire is coming out of the yellow box on the bottom of the unit. I presume this is the condenser. Never seen one so small or square, but there it is. In the lower left, the blue wire and two or three black wires are all home-soldered onto a single brass ring. It was wrapped in electrical tape. Not sure why those would all be together like that. It ran fine, but if this set-up is wrong, I would like someone to maybe help me get it re-wired right so I won't have to go back in there unless it's to do regular maintenance.
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Earl - 04/06/07 at 6:49pm
Yes, I would almost guarantee that is at least part of the problem. It looks like evidence of arcing (burning) which indicates a direct short. Hopefully you did not throw away your old kill switch yet? It may be good. Earl 8)
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thrownchain - 04/06/07 at 7:03pm
I don't want to be nosy here, but how are the threads on the end of the crank?? Look a little suspect to me. This thing needs a good going through.
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GroovieGhoulie - 04/06/07 at 7:23pm
Actually the threads are fine. Nut came right off and there are no cross-threads or whatever. The pics are bad because the camera is actually an underwater camera and I think it has issues on dry land.
The reverse threads on the flywheel were full of crud, but a dremel with the wire wheel cleaned them out FAST so the flywheel puller could be put on.
I think it's just generally gunky and needs a cleaning.
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Bullfrog - 04/06/07 at 9:00pm
Yup, some gen-you-wine clean up is in order.
NOTE: that is not the stock condenser. It's not surprising that some other condenser would work though.
NOTE: It IS surprising that with the general workmanship of the wiring connections that it ever worked. That white wire is obviously way too long - and is that a glob of solder connecting two or three wires down there near the bottom center? With no insulation? (Maybe you mentioned removing electrical tape?)
Enneywayeee, spiff things up a bit and you should be good to go. And (as already mentioned), who knows, your kill switch may be OK!(?)
Ed
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