The Hodaka Club Forum

Paul! HELP! I can't find your phone number on the website! I need wrist pin circlips and the inner spacers for my Wiseco 10105M05050 piston for my Road Toad! I know you said to call but I can not find your phone number on the website! Please help or call me at 505-913-0558. Thanks! ; D Victor

From his BizCard on my last invoice: 802-375-0212.

And bottom (right) of the SH webpage: http://www.strictlyhodaka.com/

---Bill

Thanks for the number. When I hit the link, I still don't see a phone number at the bottom right of the page! But now I can call him on Monday!

How strange. As I said in the other thread, contact the Admin (Paul 'imself) and they'll contact their Internet people. Good luck.

--Bill

Wow. Bad news . Talked with Pail. Says he has both no more spacers and no more Wiseco 100 Pistons. Bummer, cause he said he won't be ordering any more either. Too costly. ; D Victor

Hi Victor,
That is NOT what I said...
What I said to you in the email was that I no longer had anymore of the spacers to take up excess space between the upper rod bearing and the boss on the underneath side of the new modern Wiseco pistons. I also stated that because of cost to make a production run it is doubtful I will be making more of these Wiseco pistons in the future.
I did NOT say that I have "no more" Wiseco pistons. Here is what I wrote to you taken from my sent email.

"I do not have any other pistons available in the 100cc size than the Wiseco pistons."

This means that I no longer have any original ART Hodaka pistons left only that I have Wiseco pistons left in stock.
I am sorry for your not understanding what I had written.
Paul

Sorry. I stand corrected. ; D Victor

Victor more than likely you don't need the shims it should self center.

Unless the rod has a wear channel in the middle from use (and if it does it should probably be replaced) there is nothing to cause the bearing to self center. However, needles don't fully support the rod to start with; typically only 62% of the surface of the rod bears on needles. If the cage slides 3.5 mm to either side, this brings needle contact to the outer edge of the rod bearing surface, but probably does not expose needles beyond the edge of the rod. So the rod will have as much support centered as it would displaced, but the support will be displaced to one side or the other, depending on where the bearing locates itself at a given moment. This isn't ideal by any means, and we don't have a way to test the result if the support of the needle bearings is not centered in the rod end other than field testing. Apparently, these pistons have been placed in service without spacers and without problems. While I wouldn't race the engine built this way, it should serve as a training platform for young dirt bikers.
This is a photo of a Wiseco piston and Wiseco bearing. The rod end is roughly as wide as the bearing cage, but clearly the needles stop well short of full width support. The example is a 64mm piston from an RD350B, but for purpose of example, is not different in relationship as between piston boss and rod clearance compared to a Hodaka unit. Clearly the needles don't fully support the rod. In this case, only 62.755%.

Here is the same piston but with a Kawasaki bearing of different design. The cage to boss clearance is slightly greater, being 1.5mm instead of 1mm total clearance, but as you can see, the needles are much longer. Here, bearing contact is 80% of the rod bearing surface.

The Wiseco bearing has 3.98mm of cage between bearing end and end of cage. If such a bearing were to slide sideways 3.5mm, only the cage end would be exposed. However, the Kawasaki bearing has only 1.98mm of cage between bearing and cage end. If this bearing were to slide 3.5mm to the side, approximately 1.5mm of needle would be exposed, and rod support would be decreased. Whether that would be a problem is moot.

I don't have one of the 100cc Wiseco units with bearing to measure, but I think it was Max who posted a photo of one. The question would be whether the needles would stay within the rod bearing area or be exposed should the bearing slide 3.5mm to either side. My guess is that the needles would not be exposed, or not very much.

Conclusion remains the same to me. I wouldn't scream an engine built this way, but it should survive as a play bike.

Well, first, I want to apologize to Paul for misreading his post. I just have to chalk it up to the frustration of the moment. Glad you still have plenty of Pistons!

Second, I'm going to defer to Greg on this. I don't know what brand of bearing the PO got when he bought the piston, but I'm assuming everything came from Strictly Hodaka.

And since the bike is going to my middle grandson who is 13 and never ridden, (not going to be raced) I suspect it will be all right. I was put in a worried mood by the posting and discussion when Maxie showed the piston and several of us discussed the situation. I am glad I can put it together without worrying about the need for spacers.

When the cylinder was bored out, the machinist did not champher the ports or the exhaust bridge. I guess I need to find someone locally to do this for me? Or is it something I can accomplish with a dremel and a grinding stone? Just want to make sure this is something I can do without serious machine tooling. ; D Victor

It is fairly simple to do with a dremel but be careful not to make tracks on the bore. The limitation of a dremel is it is somewhat fat and makes access to some of the port edges difficult. Try without turning the dremel on. If you can get a burr or stone to all needed places and still put a chamfer on the ports, you can try it live. Otherwise find a bike shop to do it.

I guess the way that worked for all of us through all the years, would be the wrong way today?? I always used the smallest chain saw file I could find and just broke the tip off . ------------Clarence

That will work too. I just prefer power tools, but there are times when a dremel won't reach a port, and in those cases, if a file will reach, I use it. What Vic asked was could it be done with a dremel or stone. I take this as a two part question, one having to do with the appropriateness of a dremel (or stone which I have never used), and the other with abilities. I don't know his abilities. If Vic trusts the steadiness of his hands, I think he can try this only I suggested a dry run first.

The best tool to use is a die grinder made for porting engines, but very few of us has one of those. I have ported engines ranging from 100cc two strokes to 350 Chevys using a dremel, but admittedly they don't reach as far into small spots as they need to, so you just have to try.

No doubt if you are patient, a stone will work also.

Well, actually Greg it was a single question. "Can I do it with a dremel with a grinding stone on the dremel?" Should have phrased it that way to begin with. I know people do it with a stone, but I get frustrated with things that take too long. ; D Victor

Arizona Shorty wrote:It is fairly simple to do with a dremel but be careful not to make tracks on the bore. The limitation of a dremel is it is somewhat fat and makes access to some of the port edges difficult. Try without turning the dremel on. If you can get a burr or stone to all needed places and still put a chamfer on the ports, you can try it live. Otherwise find a bike shop to do it.

Dremel makes extension cables to attach to the power head. The bit holder at the end of the cable is much slimmer and more maneuverable -- kind of like a dentists' drill.

Here is another way to chamfer the port edges and a link to where you can purchase them...http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAK ... TPG=INLMK3. These are very useful tools with many more uses and sometimes go on sale for as little as twenty bucks.

Danny

Danny. Are those hand powered or do they spin? ; D Victor

Vic,
These are scrapers and are hand powered. They do not spin you just push or pull, as the case may be, against the edge you are trying to debur, chamfer, improve fit, etc. You can see they have three cutting edges that can be resharpened when needed. They work very fast for this type of use. If you go this route practice on some scrape metal to develop your technique.

Danny

Carbide? Where did you find it? Looks interesting.

There are some 4 piece kits on eBay right now for $27.99 with free shipping! ; D Victor

Arizona Shorty wrote:Carbide? Where did you find it? Looks interesting.

GMC,
These are high speed steel and work very well on Hodaka cast iron cylinders. Not so good for plated cylinders.

Click on this link, http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAK ... TPG=INLMK3

Danny

Plated cylinders need diamond. I have that also, but so far haven't needed to chamfer a nikasil cylinder.