Hodaka Trials
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:15 am
kipper - 10/17/07 at 11:09pm
What suggestions for a starter -- thinking about using a wombat for the basis.
What mods to do first?
thanks
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Earl - 10/18/07 at 9:41am
The very most important first step is to get it running very clean. No hesitations and no blubbering. After that a good set of "Real" "Soft" Trials Tires. Earl 8)
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Bullfrog - 10/18/07 at 11:16am
. . . and after taking care of Earl's list, then perhaps (adjust the order to suit yourself):
- gearing
- "blue print" the clutch to get it working smoothly
- move foot pegs to the rear (and make new rear brake pedal)
- perhaps lengthen the brake arm at the front hub
- install slightly longer shocks to improve steering geometry for trials
- custom trials exhaust system
Then, if you want to get REALLY serious, consider chassis modifications to further improve steering geometry & rider position and/or serious engine modifications such as extra flywheel weight, weighted clutch, reed valve, change primary gears, etc.
Ed
(Hot dang, another trials rider!! Oh goody!)
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Earl - 10/21/07 at 2:22pm
And while you are moving those pegs backwards, think about a smaller/more streamined tank and a smaller seat. But only after it is running good with "Trials" tires and lower gearing. I also use the longer rear shocks and did not do any frame mods (except to trim the fork stops to allow more swing). Earl 8)
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Bobwombat - 10/24/07 at 11:17pm
Earl & Ed: 1) Do you have a recommendation on (external) gearing for a "beginner" trials bike, ie; no frame mods & stock Wombat engine w/possible custom trials exhaust.
2) I spoke w/George yesterday & he said 14/64 would do fine. This is customary gearing for track use too.
3) Also, without frame mods to have proper rake, will moving the front forks up in the top clamps do anything to help handling for trials riding?
4) Finally, George said nobody makes a flywheel weight & the riders who have done it properly have had custom weights machined. Question: For beginner trials events, could a rider get by w/out the flywheel weight? $300 clams sounds pricey for someone just starting out.
Any thoughts? Thx, Bob in AZ
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Earl - 10/28/07 at 3:24pm
Bob,
On my ACE and Wombat based Trialers (both with 125 motors), I left the forks in stock position but used 1" longer shocks to change the geometry.
Both B&J Racing and Proflo make Hodaka flywheel weights. The weight from Proflo is very trick and adjustable. The one from B&J is not adjustable but works well. You will need to send your flywheel to them for the modification and I do not know their pricing structure so you will have to ask them. John at Proflo was trying to retire, so I can not say for sure that he will still make them. But they are nice. If you look through the old posts here or on Phil's forum, you can find some pictures of John's system. Earl. 8)
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Bullfrog - 11/03/07 at 3:03pm
I'm thinking you might like 13/64 better for trials.
Note that in my previous response adding flywheel weight was held for when you want to get REALLY serious about trials mods. That's when you get serious about welding and move the pegs too.
Yes, sliding the forks through the triple clamps helps steering geometry . . . but be sure to check wheel travel with the fork springs removed. You don't want the tire to hit the fender and lock up - unintended "stoppies" on a down-hill with big bump just aren't any fun!
Ed
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JayLael - 11/13/07 at 7:43pm
Bill Cook at http://www.hodaka-parts.com should have Trials flywheel kits for 125 Wombat points type applications. They consist of a beautiful flywheel weight machined to fit the 94 flywheel, and a flywheel which is specially modified to fit the custom weight. These will require a good core exchange or a core charge for the flywheel. The combined flywheel and weight are just under six pounds total. These were developed with my help by Ron Liddle for Hodaka Trials projects and will be available at Bill's web site.
We are also planning to offer for sale some other trials items which are currently being tested including a trials frame and swingarm built by me, based on 125 Wombat chassis and engine, and a trials exhaust system which will be for the custom frame kit. These are coming along nicely and should make for a good looking and a really good working trials bike. I am nearing completion on the first one which is sold to Bill Cook. The idea is the customer will use his own wombat components to finish the bike. Price is not finalized yet but they are going to be spendy as there are around fifty working hours and alot of special parts in each one. Stay tuned for photographs of these sometime around Christmas time, or maybe sooner on http://www.hodaka-parts.com ;
Happy Hodaka-ing Jay Lael
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Bobwombat - 11/14/07 at 1:19am
Earl & Ed, thx for the good info. Yes, my first effort will be a "pretend" Trialer for sure but I've printed your info out for future use. Meanwhile, I'll go with the 13/64 gearing as Ed suggests.
Am I the last to learn of Jay's Trials efforts w/Bill Cook? Very cool.....
Thx to all AGAIN! Bob in AZ
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JayLael - 11/14/07 at 4:05pm
Forgot to mention the custom skid plate, and the "shark fin" which is intended to keep the riders extremities out of the rear sprocket. The way I ride this can save you a couple of digits.
Also Ron has developed the absolute ultimate trials mod for Wombat engines. It consists of a specially built crankshaft which allows the use of the old ace 100 clutch and primary gears. With this setup on the bike and 13/66 external gearing, the bike will crawl along at unbelievably slow speeds also allowing second gear to be used for larger climbs. With the "Tree Frog primaries and 13/66 final drive, the bike acts the same in second as it had formerly been in first gear, so it's like super granny gearing. This mod will save you one heck of a lot of points by itself! It is also a really good idea to install the latest type of clutch plates in whatever Hodaka clutch you are using. The special crankshafts should be available any time just give Bill Cook a jingle and tell him I sent you. Also I am planning to put together another Hodie trialer for myself eventually which will have all these trick items and an even more modern frame configuration.
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END OF THREAD
What suggestions for a starter -- thinking about using a wombat for the basis.
What mods to do first?
thanks
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Earl - 10/18/07 at 9:41am
The very most important first step is to get it running very clean. No hesitations and no blubbering. After that a good set of "Real" "Soft" Trials Tires. Earl 8)
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Bullfrog - 10/18/07 at 11:16am
. . . and after taking care of Earl's list, then perhaps (adjust the order to suit yourself):
- gearing
- "blue print" the clutch to get it working smoothly
- move foot pegs to the rear (and make new rear brake pedal)
- perhaps lengthen the brake arm at the front hub
- install slightly longer shocks to improve steering geometry for trials
- custom trials exhaust system
Then, if you want to get REALLY serious, consider chassis modifications to further improve steering geometry & rider position and/or serious engine modifications such as extra flywheel weight, weighted clutch, reed valve, change primary gears, etc.
Ed
(Hot dang, another trials rider!! Oh goody!)
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Earl - 10/21/07 at 2:22pm
And while you are moving those pegs backwards, think about a smaller/more streamined tank and a smaller seat. But only after it is running good with "Trials" tires and lower gearing. I also use the longer rear shocks and did not do any frame mods (except to trim the fork stops to allow more swing). Earl 8)
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Bobwombat - 10/24/07 at 11:17pm
Earl & Ed: 1) Do you have a recommendation on (external) gearing for a "beginner" trials bike, ie; no frame mods & stock Wombat engine w/possible custom trials exhaust.
2) I spoke w/George yesterday & he said 14/64 would do fine. This is customary gearing for track use too.
3) Also, without frame mods to have proper rake, will moving the front forks up in the top clamps do anything to help handling for trials riding?
4) Finally, George said nobody makes a flywheel weight & the riders who have done it properly have had custom weights machined. Question: For beginner trials events, could a rider get by w/out the flywheel weight? $300 clams sounds pricey for someone just starting out.
Any thoughts? Thx, Bob in AZ
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Earl - 10/28/07 at 3:24pm
Bob,
On my ACE and Wombat based Trialers (both with 125 motors), I left the forks in stock position but used 1" longer shocks to change the geometry.
Both B&J Racing and Proflo make Hodaka flywheel weights. The weight from Proflo is very trick and adjustable. The one from B&J is not adjustable but works well. You will need to send your flywheel to them for the modification and I do not know their pricing structure so you will have to ask them. John at Proflo was trying to retire, so I can not say for sure that he will still make them. But they are nice. If you look through the old posts here or on Phil's forum, you can find some pictures of John's system. Earl. 8)
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Bullfrog - 11/03/07 at 3:03pm
I'm thinking you might like 13/64 better for trials.
Note that in my previous response adding flywheel weight was held for when you want to get REALLY serious about trials mods. That's when you get serious about welding and move the pegs too.
Yes, sliding the forks through the triple clamps helps steering geometry . . . but be sure to check wheel travel with the fork springs removed. You don't want the tire to hit the fender and lock up - unintended "stoppies" on a down-hill with big bump just aren't any fun!
Ed
___________________________________________________________________________________________
JayLael - 11/13/07 at 7:43pm
Bill Cook at http://www.hodaka-parts.com should have Trials flywheel kits for 125 Wombat points type applications. They consist of a beautiful flywheel weight machined to fit the 94 flywheel, and a flywheel which is specially modified to fit the custom weight. These will require a good core exchange or a core charge for the flywheel. The combined flywheel and weight are just under six pounds total. These were developed with my help by Ron Liddle for Hodaka Trials projects and will be available at Bill's web site.
We are also planning to offer for sale some other trials items which are currently being tested including a trials frame and swingarm built by me, based on 125 Wombat chassis and engine, and a trials exhaust system which will be for the custom frame kit. These are coming along nicely and should make for a good looking and a really good working trials bike. I am nearing completion on the first one which is sold to Bill Cook. The idea is the customer will use his own wombat components to finish the bike. Price is not finalized yet but they are going to be spendy as there are around fifty working hours and alot of special parts in each one. Stay tuned for photographs of these sometime around Christmas time, or maybe sooner on http://www.hodaka-parts.com ;
Happy Hodaka-ing Jay Lael
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Bobwombat - 11/14/07 at 1:19am
Earl & Ed, thx for the good info. Yes, my first effort will be a "pretend" Trialer for sure but I've printed your info out for future use. Meanwhile, I'll go with the 13/64 gearing as Ed suggests.
Am I the last to learn of Jay's Trials efforts w/Bill Cook? Very cool.....
Thx to all AGAIN! Bob in AZ
___________________________________________________________________________________________
JayLael - 11/14/07 at 4:05pm
Forgot to mention the custom skid plate, and the "shark fin" which is intended to keep the riders extremities out of the rear sprocket. The way I ride this can save you a couple of digits.
Also Ron has developed the absolute ultimate trials mod for Wombat engines. It consists of a specially built crankshaft which allows the use of the old ace 100 clutch and primary gears. With this setup on the bike and 13/66 external gearing, the bike will crawl along at unbelievably slow speeds also allowing second gear to be used for larger climbs. With the "Tree Frog primaries and 13/66 final drive, the bike acts the same in second as it had formerly been in first gear, so it's like super granny gearing. This mod will save you one heck of a lot of points by itself! It is also a really good idea to install the latest type of clutch plates in whatever Hodaka clutch you are using. The special crankshafts should be available any time just give Bill Cook a jingle and tell him I sent you. Also I am planning to put together another Hodie trialer for myself eventually which will have all these trick items and an even more modern frame configuration.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
END OF THREAD