Model 95 Swing Arm Bushings

[bchappy]

I admit I didn't notice where the washers were before I took the swing arm off and took the bushings out of the frame and swing arm so I could have them powder coated. In looking at the parts manual it appears they go inside against the swing arm but I can't tell for sure. I have searched all my workshop manuals and can not tell if there is clearance between the swing arm bushing and the frame bushing. Also cannot tell if there is a torque for the swing arm nut.

It would appear with the rubber in the frame bushing if any torque is applied to the nut the bushings will be locked down against each other and the only flex would be the rubber in the frame bushings. Seems I should know this but I have only taken the swing arm off the newer models that are different than this one.

I even watched Kelly's video on replacing the bushing but it didn't really mention the washers, a clearance, or talk about torque on the axle bolt.

[BrianZ]

There are no washers between the bushing and swingarm. The two washers go underneath the bolt head and underneath the nut, against the outboard surfaces of the bushings. The swingarm moves up and down by torsionally flexing the rubber bushing. As for tightening torque, I have no idea. I suppose tightening it similar to the front axle would be about right.

Brian

[bchappy]

Thanks Brian. So the bushings are tightened against each other and the rubber handles all the flexing. I see why there is no grease fitting and I also see why they changed it on the later models.

[Zyx]

Well, yes and no about the bushings being clamped tight, and all the flex coming from the rubber. I find that even though the parts are against each other when tightened, my swing arm still falls fairly free when there are no shocks and such attached ( fairly being it will move with finger pressure on the end of the arm, but not necessarily fall by gravity alone). If it were dead free, it would wander under hard loads, so I think the rubber is more for the fore and aft shock load. I have never been able to move a bushing just be tightening the axle bolt, so if yours is too tight with just the swing arm inserted, back off the bushings a tad. They do move in and out if you insist. I would expect the metal sleeve in the bushing to touch the swing arm pivot metal to metal, but not so hard it can only move if the rubber gives. I think there is some of each going on. When I install the swing arm between the bushings, there is a little negative clearance, but not so much you have to beat it into place.

Because the washers bear on the inner sleeve, if the bushings are too far apart, you will just displace the sleeve inward when tightened, so it ends up metal to metal anyway. I have never considered a proper torque load for the nut. I tighten them tight with a short handle socket wrench, so maybe 35 ft/lb.

Perhaps the next time I have one apart I will study the relationship of bushing sleeves to swing arm. It may also be that the washers will also bear on the frame when right, limiting the amount of clamp force applied to the bushings, and perhaps that's why I think mine swings more freely than just the rubber giving way. Have to look at it next time.

[Bullfrog]

The design intent for the swing arm nut and bolt is to "squeeze" the inner sleeves of the bushings toward the center and firmly clamp the swing arm on the Model 95 (and ALL earlier Hodies). Rotational "freedom" of the swing arm is indeed provided by the ability of the rubber to allow torsional/rotational movement. The design provides for a "no moving parts/no wear" system (of sorts). The primary disadvantage of the design is a small measure of "left-right flex" at the pivot bushing rubber. Not particularly noticeable in the dirt . . . but not the ideal on the street and road racing.

Ed

[Zyx]

Oddly, my original swing arm shaft shows distinct wear. Not worn out, just clear signs of movement.

[Bullfrog]

That sort of thing is why I said "of sorts" on the no moving parts/no wear concept. The "bearing area" or contact patch of the inner sleeve of the bushing against the washers on the outside and the swing arm pivot "caps" is mighty small. That small area can lead to fretting/compression/deformation/loosening . . . which can convert the system into a "moving parts, with wear" system. My own scooter had worn "divots" into the faces of the swing arm end caps . . . making it almost impossible achieve the "no moving parts" design intent. I had to make new swing arm pivot caps -- they were never offered (or even listed) as a replaceable part.

Ed

[rough rider]

Capt Ed, That sounds like a great tech article for the Resonator..what do you think? And yes, I do enjoy reading your write ups. Richard

[bchappy]

I have it all together and tightened up about like the front axel. I see no signs of wear on the axel or swing are pivot caps so hopefully it will work as engineered. I do agree with Ed in that the bearing area is pretty small and has the potential of moving if the axel nut get a little loose. I guess we should check it occasionally.

[RESTOREACE100]

Hi all . I'm new to the forum . I am in the process of removing the swing arm bushings from the ACE 100 B + frame and requesting guidance or if special tool available . There was a mention of " Kellys" video in this subject , but not sure where to find that . ANy ideas , link to the video or special tools recommended would be a BIG help . Sorry if I should have made this a new subject . I'm learning .

[relic]

I'm pretty new here as well, but I have watched every Hodaka video I can find and here's a link to the one I think you want:
https://youtu.be/JlfXMjU2JbE

Once there you will find that he also has a video describing the install part of the job, plus several other good ones to watch.

If you don't have access to a bushing driver kit or the tooling to make something similar I've done this same job on other bikes using a correctly sized piece of steel pipe or a cheapo socket. If hammering isn't working I think you could fab up a "pusher" using a length of threaded rod and some flat washers and a large enough socket (or the like) to "receive" the bushing.

Hope this helps.

Relic

[BrianZ]

Here are the links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlfXMjU2JbE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xANwX08cf24

Brian

Edit: Sorry for the redundant post. Relic beat me by a minute.

[Bruce Young]

I have been following this forum for a long, long , time and I think after reading this swing arm posting, again I need to make a request or a plea for someone out there in the Hodaka World, that might agree with me that a detailed, INDEX needs to be set up of all previous forum posts, based on subject matter, so if nec. someone could jump to INDEX and go directly to info provided and get started with research of how to fix things.
Thanks for your patience. Bruce Young

[Zyx]

I consulted with a friend of mine who is a moderator on Thumper Talk, a rather large motorcycle forum, regarding indexing threads here that deal with tech topics. Here's what I found:

PhpBB is a fairly two dimensional forum program that permits folders, but is not flexible enough to simple "index" a given thread. However, multiple folders can be created and maintained, so a "Tech" folder could be established into which we could post things that we believe are "tech" in nature, an admin person could move tech threads that arise in the main folder to whichever folder seems appropriate, or, admin could simply designate a tech thread as a "sticky" which would force that thread to stay on top of the post list, and any regular threads started would start below the sticky posts.

Each of these requires administrative access, so either Paul could do it, or Paul could designate one of the members as a moderator and give that person limited access to do the maintenance. Far as I know we can not create sticky threads ourselves. So if Paul decides to create a Tech folder, and doesn't want to monitor regularly, those of us with tech advice could start posts in that folder instead of the general folder.

The way I see it, self-monitoring of post content requires a certain savvy, so although it would be easy to create a tech folder, it would be anyone's guess whether we are bright enough to know ahead of time whether our new post is going to be a tech thread. Many times general questions evolve into tech discussions, so it would be hard to know up front, except for Kelly and Danny and Pep and a few others, whether a post would or should end up in tech.

The simplest way I see, using the least effort, would be for Paul to decide if a discussion warrants a tech listing, and either move the entire thread to a tech folder, or. make it a sticky for as long as it is of immediate interest, and then as time permits move valuable threads to a tech folder. But this requires effort no matter how you do it. Word searches aren't enough to distinguish content value. It takes human decision making.

Bottom line, it is an admin call.