The Hodaka Club Forum

Ed, the Clutch Blueprinting article is in Vol-1 Issue-4 of the Resonator. Page 3.
The Index is online at the Hodaka Club website on the Resonator back issues.

In this article I don't recall seeing the recommendation that the clutch cover have additional holes drilled for improved oil flow. Is that still a good recommendation ?

Thanks for the clarification, Captain. Indeed you are again correct. I referred to the Resonator article, the tip here on SH and the Wombat Shop manual for my rebuilds with great results - a success likely enhanced yet more when you reached my shed in Cedar Falls, Iowa with the long arm of sensibility and wrested the quivering Dremel from my grasp - just in the nick of time

Matt, back away from the Dremel. Don't make me yell at you.

Ed
PS: Thanks for the giggle!

While drilling the extra holes in the clutch cover IS a good modification . . . I'm not sure that anyone other than a really machine-aware racer or trials rider would notice a difference. So if you have the skills and equipment to drill the holes . . . go for it. If properly locating the holes and drilling them squarely (deburring, etc.) is going to be a stretch for your equipment and skills then I'd recommend that you use the time riding rather than modifying the machine.
Ed

I'll do the extra oil holes when I blueprint the clutch. My local shop has an indexing table on their mill and can get each hole located precisely. I've already thunk out the "how".

Alright! You've got a good plan!
Ed

Hey!! Somebody boosted all of my mandrels...CAPTAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Huh??????????

Those are the little bits for my Dremel.

Mandrels are in season now. Easy to get more...

Oh! My subterfuge has already been discovered. You weren't backing away from the Dremel fast enough to assure safety for your clutch. So . . . using my rank and contacts . . . a Mission Impossible style operation was organized and completed in short order to save your clutch from possible grievous harm.

Captain Eddie

Bill, after the Captain's operatives fast-roped into my shop and appropriated my mandrels, I've now learned that they welded the chuck on my Dremel. Additionally, someone spray painted "Put down the Dremel and back away" on the top of my bench. But hey, they left a brand new fine-cutting triangular file. Yes, the Captain runs a tight ship indeed. Last time he yelled at me, I needed to have a good cry

Matt, I suspect we could go on like this for days . . . but out of respect for our fellow Hodakaphiles . . . mayhaps we shouldn't. Um, did my operatives leave a file comb? You are going to need it.

Ed

We are stealthily formulating a plan to ventilate the clutch housing with a Dremel in conjunction with a 45rpm turntable. Keep tuned...

Love it. File comb - check

PS - I've been accused of running my bikes AND bad sense of humor into the ground. Just ask my wife.

Hmmm, it looks like there may be a bit more mileage in this thread after all. It appears that the Athena centric name of "file comb" may have shot by you - so I did a Google search and discovered that the world apparently thinks that a file comb is more properly called a file card. Go figure. But you will still need one. So I misdirected you with my choice of nomenclature -- much as you did with the use of the word "mandrel" to describe "burr". Um, I've not noticed any bad humor in this thread . . . until I typed THIS response.

Chuckling in Oregon,
Ed

I call it a file card but I've also heard it called a file comb... the name seems to be interchangeable. I do that they are rare. The local tool stores don't carry 'em. I'll do a search. But it is useful to files clean. I've been using a small toothbrush-sized wire brush on my files in the meantime.

EDIT: McMaster-Carr has file cleaners, aka file cards. I need some .032" stainless lockwire and other supplies.

I'll file file comb in my mental filing card file for future file maintenance. OK, that's all I have.

Happy 4th y'all.
.........Light Fuse - Get Away.

Pardon me for taking this back to TDC.
Top Dead Center
(or Total Doofus Cranium)
Insert your TDC here..........


Installed new clutch pack parts, newer type, along with new pinion bushing.

The clutch is acting the same, with just a tad of clutch pull, getting the grinding rod knock sound and when pushing down on the gear, it wants to stall and when selecting up from that gear totally dies.

Does this sound like a bearing issue?

Maybe i shouldn't have put the left over BBQ Kraft Singles in between the friction plates....

Round 2.......

Sounds like a clutch adjustment issue. The clutch is.not releasing. Not the same as before-- then the clutch was slipping and not engaging. Get your shop.manual and do the adjustment from the clutch arm on the side cover to the clutch lever on the handlebar.

The clutch is making noise throughout the entire pull of the clutch. The same as before. yes.

Bill. Maybe I need more spacers. The lever moves more than 3/16 for sure. Just trying to imagine why the "graunch" sound would occur through the entire pull of the clutch distance. Just sounds "bad". (original problem). Maybe it is a cable adjustment at the case, but to be honest it sounds like maybe this rattling in occuring even in the slackest position and increasing as you pull the clutch. Make sense? I can try and create a video.

Sparky, we need to establish some baseline data. Several items in no particular order:

1. When you say you installed new clutch parts, new style, I am going to assume you mean friction discs, but how many did you install? How many steel drive plates?

2. There was discussion on how to blueprint your clutch. Did you do any of the procedures outlined in the blueprinting process? Particularly, did you address washboard grooves in the clutch cage?

3. Are the clutch assembly screws in your clutch stock items or full thread replacements? Did you fully tighten those screws on assembly?

4. While the clutch was apart, did you measure the height of the clutch cage? Over the years Hodaka made several clutchs that are nearly impossible to tell apart, but which do not all have the same part count. That is, if you put the right number of clutch plates for an Ace 100 into a clutch with a cage from a Super Combat, the parts will fit but you won't have a clutch that works. So, when ordering friction discs, did you start with the assumption that the clutch you have is correct for your model of engine? If so, that assumption could possibly be wrong.

5. When installing the assembled clutch, did you put back the spacers you had, or did you start from scratch and verify how many spacers were needed to properly index the clutch? If you merely but back what was there, it may or may not be what you need. Remember, your clutch didn't work right to start with. Putting back the same spacers only puts you back where you started, and that may not be where you need to be.

6. Does the clutch rotor have smooth teeth or are the edges dinged and sharp. The drive plates are not the only pieces in the clutch assembly that must move freely against the cage. While it is not mentioned in the blueprinting explanation, I believe the rotor has to be relieved in the same way the drive plates are relieved, and for the same reason.

7. Is the clutch actuating arm free to move when the clutch cover is off the bike? No drag, no crunch? This is a process of eliminating possibles. There are only so many parts involved, so you have to verify that the crunch isn't caused by a) the clutch lever (hand lever not case arm), b) clutch cable including adjustment ends, c) actuating arm on the cover, or d) thrust button, before you can say with certainty that the noise is coming from e) the clutch pack.

But most likely, the noise is coming from the clutch and not the levers and cable. Easy to check these things. If it is coming from the clutch pack, I would say it has to come back out. Take it apart and start over. I don't know of a comprehensive listing of clutch case heights, but there are enough folks out there who have these things in their garage that we may be able to positively verify which cage you have and then how many discs are needed. Post photos of that cage including a view of the gear teeth inside the cage. These engagement teeth are aluminum and the drive plates are steel. Excessive wear on the aluminum teeth will cause a graunchy clutch. As will drive plates dragging on screws, especially if the screws are full thread and not smooth shank style. Think "blueprint clutch."

I suppose we should also verify that the clutch springs are fully seated in their respective pockets within the clutch. They can get out of orientation during assembly, although if one of the springs is sideways, I would think the clutch would not work at all. I have never tried putting one together with a spring sideways, but no doubt it can be done.

Lots of details in this process. Start over, photo document what you have, and we go from there. The clutch assembly is not the simplest piece of a Hodaka.

Since you have strange noise all the time when you pull in the clutch lever, I have to wonder if the bearings in the "clutch disc" (I think of it more as the "throw out bearing") are shot. The clutch disc (as it is named in the Illustrated Parts manuals) is the item between the clutch pressure piece in the clutch cover and the clutch - and the spacer shims go under it. Anyway, if just the slightest pressure on the clutch system to disengage it starts the noise - then a close inspection of the clutch disc is appropriate.
Ed
PS: If the clutch disc checks out with no problems . . . the next suspect is crank bearing.
PPS: Sorry for high jacking the thread there for a while with our hi-jinks . . . but now we are back on topic.

Thanks HJ,
Here's a quick reply (well it took some time and I appreciate your very detailed reply)


1. When you say you installed new clutch parts.....
I got the Clutch rebuild kit Item# 934000kit for the Mdl 92, 93, 94, and 96
It has 3 black (thinner than stock) steel clutch plates and 4 fiber friction discs (with the holes in it).
They were assembled in the same order as the old discs which was just like the drawing in the manual, For the ACE 100B clutch assembly.
(I feel there is a gray area here with the later model 100A aces, which I assume is what I have, example-Wiring diagram is same as Ace 90)
I took special care to make sure the clutch plates made it into the groves of the clutch cage while tightening the 7 screws.

Honestly I don’t understand how those plates are supposed to move when you eliminate all possible motion when tightening the cage cover down. Is there still a tad bit of spring play left?

2. There was discussion on how to blueprint your clutch.......
I don’t have access to the blueprinting article, So perhaps I need to join the Hodaka Club to gain access.

3. Are the clutch assembly screws in your clutch stock items.......
They are the stock screws with the drilled holes in the end. They are tight and wired

4. While the clutch was apart, did you measure the height of the clutch cage........
Did not measure the height of the clutch cage. What height are we looking for?
I assumed it was correct since I did not uncover any warnings from the manual. That said, seems like the manual sort of doesn’t address the model that is in between an Ace 90 and a model 100B

5. When installing the assembled clutch, did you put back the spacers you had......
I did not have a set of clutch disc spacers handy. I put back the one spacer that was on the clutch disc upon disassembly. if I had a set of spacers, I would have been able to dial that in better so, this for sure will be needed.
Q: Would the lack of spacing account for a growl throughout the entire range of clutch pull? Sounds like the shaft is getting forced into a wonky set of bearings.

6. Does the clutch rotor have smooth teeth or are the edges dinged and sharp....
On page 2 of this thread I posted images of the gears, download/file.php?id=5347&mode=view
They seemed pretty good. Looking at the picture now there appears to be a questionable wear mark on one of the teeth but i think that is a reflection. I replaced the pinion bushing with a new one. I reused the thrust washer and btw, there was no way to tell which side of the washer was the “round edge” side. Both edges looked right angled. (sharp)

7. Is the clutch actuating arm free to move when the clutch cover is off the bike...
Arm moved freely. As well it doesn't seem to leak.
The crunch almost sounds like it is coming from the gear shifter side. with even the slightest clutch pull (like 1/4”), you hear the Knogga Knogga Knogga….). This is why I’m wondering about a crank shaft issue if the pressure of the applied clutch is putting pressure on something.

....Post photos of that cage including a view of the gear teeth inside the cage.....

previous photos are here (simply back up a few pages)

I will have to disassemble again to get complete pictures.

....verify that the clutch springs are fully seated ...

I was carful to seat the springs. This has the single 7 spring set up. Would be curious to know your approach to lining up the fiber discs, metal discs, cage and shaft teeth to keep it al together so you can tighten it down whilst keeping metal disks from getting pinched and not getting slight movement off the shaft splines. i had to do this very carefully several times. Was a PITA. The manual definition is confusing!

Thanks guys!
Dave