Timing the Hodaka

[spudman]

I'll give this new method a try in the morning. Thanks Dale. Just to be clear....I should also have the blue and black wires from the stator to the coil unplugged as well?

[Dale]

I do mine with just the plug under the seat unplugged and use a homemade buzz box.

[Bullfrog]

If all else fails, you could fall back on the ol' cellophane method. With the points open, insert a strip of cellophane in the points. Now rotate the flywheel to close the points on the cellophane. With very light tension on the cellophane, slowly rotate the flywheel while watching for alignment of your timing marks. The cellophane will be released when the points open . . . if the timing marks are aligned at the instant of release . . . you are close enough for general use. I like to confirm ACTUAL timing with a simple low cost automotive timing light.
Ed

[spudman]

Hey guys...using the blue & black wires from the plug under the seat provided the same result. For whatever reason, I just don't seem to be able to utilize the standard buzz-box or continuity light method on my bike. So...I went with the cellophane strip method and I appear to have things set very close to what it should be. This whole thing has me worried that I may have a bad ground somewhere though, so this morning I started checking and cleaning all the electrical connections I could see. Just unplugging them all...lightly sanding the male bullet connector tips and applying dielectric grease before plugging them back together. That reminds me...I know the headlight runs off the engine and doesn't come on when the key is turned on, but do the turn signals run primarily off the engine/magneto too? They come on now with just the key on, but only flash once or twice before giving the impression that the battery is weak. The battery is a strong 6 volts and the horn and all dash lights work fine, so I was just wondering about how the turn signals are primarily powered. Thanks.

[MTRob]

I messed with the timing on my bikes and still have some hair left till I found this on EBay HODAKA ACE 90 100 DIRT SQUIRT100 SUPPER RAT WOMBAT SUPER COMBAT TIMING TOOL If you go to eBay search type in (Hodaka Timing tool) it will show the tool. It works great.
Check it out.
MTRob

[spudman]

Looks like a nice little device MTRob. Fortunately, my Toad fired up and ran quite nicely today after utilizing the old cellophane strip method recommended by Bullfrog. I'm going to take it for a little ride tomorrow morning for some "break-in time" and then I'll try to get some photos posted. Thanks to everyone for your help!

[dcooke007]

Spudman,
The turn signals on my 03 Wombat had the same slow flashing condition. At first thought I might need to replace the flasher. Made some basic checks before hand and flasher replacement was not required. I ended up taking both rear turn signals apart and found poor grounds. There is a ground tab in the turn signals and the connection was corroded. Removed the tab and soldered a wire to both sockets and grounded to the frame. Cleaned the bulb sockets and nice bright rear turn signals...but no flashing. Removed front turn signal lenses, clean bulb sockets and removed turn signals from mounting stems. Cleaned stem to turn signal mount to provide good ground and signals blinked but a little more slowly than seemed reasonable.

Completed my engine install and with engine running turn signals flashed at a normal rate. Battery completed charging and now turn signals operate as they should.

Long story I guess just to say check connections and ground circuit.

Danny Cooke

[hodakamax]

Hey Spudman, sorry for all the trauma on the light/timing issue. Something weird was happening. I used the method just the other day on a model 99 engine on the bench and it was business as usual. Probably one of the other wires was taking it to ground somehow. The cellophane and feeler gauges work fine but just aren't as accurate or easy in my opinion. Glad you are up and running!

Max

[spudman]

Yep...definitely up and running for sure! A few things to report:
1. Turn signals are fine when the bike is running. Apparently they work the same way the headlight does (primarily off the magneto).
2. I should have included a new float valve needle and seat when rebuilding the carb. I had a small leak before I started, but assumed it was either the bowl gasket or drain plug gasket. After now reading threads here detailing how common it is for the seat to go bad, I purchased a new needle and seat this morning.
3. Cleaning up all the male and female bullet connectors I could find was a good thing to do. Removing the coil and cleaning up its mounting point was also smart!
4. I'll still try to utilize a timing light of some sort to get the timing "just right". Can I assume that I'd need just a regular old timing light that connects over the outside of the plug wire for this? I know I'll likely need an external 12 volt battery to power it, but with that type of timing light, what am I looking for when using the two hash marks on the engine case and the one on the flywheel?
Thanks guys!

[dcooke007]

Spudman,
I use a timing light like you describe with no problems. Also have to use an external 12 volt power source. The mark on the flywheel and the mark to the right side of the engine case should align. My timing light has a timing advance measurement feature. If yours does also just make sure the timing light is at zero advance position.

A little finger nail polish from my wife's collection aids in being able to see the timing marks.

Danny Cooke

[spudman]

Thanks Danny! I hope to do the timing over the weekend with the old school timing light like you describe. Being single, I'll try to cruise the bars later tonight in search of a woman willing to lend me her nail polish. Err...you know what I mean. It'll be hard for her to resist a man with a Road Toad.

[dcooke007]

Yep Road Toad is a chick magnet. If you really want the girls though, can't beat a old school ace 90....a real granny getter!!!!

[Bill2001]

Danny-- I wonder if one could drill a hole in the shifter case over the timing mark to make it easier to do a quick timing check with a strobe light. Keep a rubber plug in the hole any other time.

[dcooke007]

Danny-- I wonder if one could drill a hole in the shifter case over the timing mark to make it easier to do a quick timing check with a strobe light. Keep a rubber plug in the hole any other time.

Bill,
I had never thought of that before. I always try to seal the ignition cover best as possible to keep moisture out. As I thought about it, maybe it would not be as practical as one might think. The shift cover needs to be removed from time to time for inspection, cleaning and re-greasing. That would be a good time to also check point condition and timing.

In my area of the woods, east coast, humidity is very high and moisture does condense in the ignition cover. I have thought about leaving the ignition cover loose on my bikes to allow some air flow. Of course that would be for bikes that don't see a lot of use.

Danny Cooke

[spudman]

I have to assume that my 99 Road Toad is unique then, as I can remove my magneto cover without needing to take the shift cover/case off at all. Also, the magneto cover itself would cover both timing marks on the engine case if left in place. Are your bikes different?

[dcooke007]

I have to assume that my 99 Road Toad is unique then, as I can remove my magneto cover without needing to take the shift cover/case off at all. Also, the magneto cover itself would cover both timing marks on the engine case if left in place. Are your bikes different?

Spudman,
Sorry, forgot there are two versions of the shift and magneto covers. The early Hodaka's shift and magneto covers are one piece. The later models have separate magneto and shift cover assemblies.

Danny Cooke

[spudman]

Ah....I see. Even in the earliest of years, Hodaka was always working on a better idea.

[spudman]

Just finished timing my Toad with a regular old timing light. I wish I would have gone right to this method from the start. Very simple and straight forward. Using the old "strip of cellophane" method got me close and the timing light allowed me to dial it right to where it needed to be. Thanks for all the help and information guys! The forum here has made my restoration project waaaaay easier than it might have been without your help.

[Bullfrog]

. . . and several of us are glad that you checked the timing with the timing light. I (for one) believe that is the only way to actually KNOW when your spark is happening.
Ed

[hodakamax]

. . . and several of us are glad that you checked the timing with the timing light. I (for one) believe that is the only way to actually KNOW when your spark is happening.
Ed

The spark is happening when the points break whichever way you check it. Both methods are good and do verify exactly when the spark will occur. Cellophane and feeler gauges are only approximate in my opinion. When using the continuity method you should be sure to turn the engine the direction it will run. This will insure any discrepancies in how the points ride on the cam per direction.

The advantage of the continuity method is you can easily set the timing with the engine removed. If you finally get discrepancies between the two methods then something else is wrong.

Max's opinion!

Maxie

[hodakamax]

Phil, you will need to set the points as described in this discussion. You can set them with a feeler gauge or use this method which is more accurate. Good luck!

Max