The Hodaka Club Forum

Grrr. The reason for no recent report is that I seem to be going backwards and I have been working on some other homeowner responsible projects while the weather is nice. The quick plan (sounds easy) was to mount some 17'' Ace100 wheels on it. That way I could use the little stock sprocket and save weight with the 4-bolt hub and the 17s would be lower to the ground. Hmm, the axle size is smaller, 12 not 15mm as on the cush hub Rat, but I did have a spacer but no axle. I do have one on another bike but after some measuring found the axle would be about an inch short. All fixable but now I need to find a Ace 100 swing arm plus axle or go with the cush hub 18'' that came with it. Then I'd need to find an 18'' front wheel. Are you following all this? I guess it's time to stop and think a day or two on how to proceed. Part of the process I guess. Still fun, it's a brain thing with challenges.

Reporting

Maxie

A quick update: Some major rummaging in the Hodaka shed turned up a barely long enough 12mm rear axle that looks like it will work. Some spacing and cutting two 15mm to 12mm axle collars to length for each end of the axle and I'll be in business. Whew! It might be a bit tricky putting this all together. We'll see.

Maxie

Cheez, what a bunch of fiddling to get the smaller axle to work so I can run the light 4-bolt hub. The advantage is now I can quickly change wheel and axle sizes quickly. All good for a multi-purpose racer of sorts. At least I can easily try different wheel combos while I'm in limbo. This thing could go several different paths yet. I may have located a twin cam brake 18'' wheel and hub for the front. If this comes to be I'll probably put something like the cush hub 18" Rat wheel on for a back and have 18s all around. If not I'm still set up for a pair of 17s. This is all fun trying to figure out what this thing should be. I know, not too exciting a report, but it does keep me thinking and plotting.

Maxie

Exellent progress, Max. Absolutely brilliant.

You have a twin brake cam wheel/hub? Twin cam, as in double leading shoe brake? Outstanding. That should give excellent brakes. What is the story behind this find?

I finally got the brakes on my Hodaka improved from "spongy, barely working" to "fairly decent". I can lock the front wheel on- and off-pavement, so I'm satisfied for the time being. I've not tested them on the smoking-hot, about-to-fade extreme use yet. But I need to.

Bill2001 wrote:Exellent progress, Max. Absolutely brilliant.

You have a twin brake cam wheel/hub? Twin cam, as in double leading shoe brake? Outstanding. That should give excellent brakes. What is the story behind this find?

Hey Bill, I like the "Absolutely brilliant" part, Hey this is a bargain project, I'm doing the best I can! I couldn't discuss the twin cam brake until now. I just now out bid everyone on E-bay for a 1967 Honda CB/CL-160 twin cam brake front wheel assembly. $76 including freight. Now let's see if it arrives. These are cool and have been used on Hodakas before. This could change the mission to a fun track bike perhaps even a streetable cafe racer with a mission! Thats the report!

Maxie

I like the photo of the spinning wheel, but how did you get the rim to stay there in space? Some kind of alien force only found in Kansas?

Funny Jack. I'm prototyping with junky parts. It looked so bad in the first shot that I went with a really low shutter speed and gave it a spin. More interesting! Strange things do happen in the Kansas Space/time continuum I must admit.

Maxie

Ah!! I'm familiar with the Hondu-160 front brake. Nicely adjustable and I'd imagine, adaptable. That was a huge and efficient front stopper for it's time.

The Beemer has a double leading shoe front brake with a fiddly adjustment sequence with cams and travel limiters, etc. The trick is to have one brake shoe contact the drum just-a-fuzz before the other to provide the self-energizing force. The difference runs between grabby brakes and really meh-brakes.

The twin cam brake 18'' wheel just arrived. It will not work with the Ace 100 forks as the axle is too big but it should work on some baby Cerianis that I can borrow off of the Day One Project which are cooler anyway. The wheel for the back can be a 4-bolt 18'' is the plan. Just a quick report as I haven't even measured anything yet.

Maxie

I wuz a little stumped by all the references to 5mm and 6mm axles . . . um, still am. But on to another topic - the dual leading shoe front hub is pretty nifty to let go of just because it uses a larger axle. Have you considered a hollow axle (sleeve) trimmed to hub width plus a few thousandths, which will snugly accept the Hodaka axle to handle the fork to fork span? (will likely have to have some custom spacers on the axle to center the hub and allow for "clamping" to the "nut side" of the axle/fork assembly.)
Ed
Doing my best to keep things complicated, thereby violating the rule of, "Simplicate and add lightness."

Hey Ed, Yes, I may be able to sleeve the smaller axle to fit. I just took the thing out of the shipping box and took a picture of it. All I noticed was it had a larger axle. I'll look at it a little closer soon and see what all the possibilities are. I don't visualize very well and have to do hands on things with all the pieces. Another puzzle to test me. As for the axles on the rear wheels, the model 92 uses a 12mm rear axle while the 93 uses a 15mm rear.

Maxie

I'm also interested to hear more about 5mm and 6mm axles......

I'm still puzzled. The last time I calculated the conversion, 6mm was a bit less than 1/4 inch. And none of the Hodies came with 1/4 inch axles.

Ed

Hmmm, I'll do some measuring, It's been a long hot day on a ladder painting. It could be the heat, or not the first time I've been wrong. I'll check it out.

Max

Oops, My Chinese measuring device Is the culprit, at least who I'm blaming. I stand corrected, the cush hub 93 rear axle is 15mm and the 92 is 12mm. Does that sound better? Thanks for pointing that out Ed. The Honda axle is also 15mm, something will work. I read it wrong, Dumb. I was reading the wrong scale. Duh.

Cheez, I had to go back and change all the wrong posts. I think I've got it right now--Maybe.

Another alternative is to substitute a different bearing than the one Honda uses. For exsmple, if the Honda hub has a 15mm ID bearing, get one a 12mm ID (or whatever you need. Chances are that the internal/inner race spacer will be the same. And if the grease seal is a problem, get a bearing with a single seal. Shouldn't be a problem.

Hmmm, different bearings? Nah, that would simplicate and add lightness . . . well, maybe not add lightness . . . but it would simplicate things.
Ed

Simplify is good. Saving unsprung weight is good. Using existing axles is good. Max's project is Good.

By way of example: axle adapters. On Beemers the traditional Earles fork used 17mm axles F&R. When they upgraded tje model line to telescopic forks in 1970, the front axle was reduced to 14mm. The bearings F&R stayed 17mm on the ID. A reducer tube is used to allow the use of the 14mm axle in the 17mm bearings. Works well most of the time.

Some quick measurements this morning and this looks to be a relatively simple bolt on with a 12-15mm sleeve that I just ordered on E-bay. It should fit both the Ace 100 forks, Super Rat 93 and Cerianis. The bearings are sealed and smooth and I'll go with them. It does look like I'm going to to have to remove the speedo drive notched collar that is stuck in the wheel and/or cut it off. Minor stuff.

Maxie

Gotta love when a plan comes together.

Like I said, adjustment of double leading shoe brakes can be fiddly. One shoe has contact the drum first and the other at a particular moment. If the other shoe contacts too soon, the brake can be grabby. If too late, the brakes won't self-energize enough. The cable adjuster and connector rod arrangement should be fairly intuitive on the adjustment. But see if you can get the factory adjustmnt procedure just in case there are tricks.

Those binders are going to look great, too.

Yes, one of the rewards of motorcycle restoration. A fifty year old brake plate has been reborn. Time and elements had taken their toll. Seized shafts and sections covered with the stuff that is a mix of lubricants and earth that takes decades to fully set into one of the strongest materials known to man. It can hold it's own against wire brushes, solvents, degreasers, acids and miracle cleaners. Ah, but include time and manpower (me), it finally yields to removal revealing the clear (now yellow) plastic like clear coat of the day. It's never all there, some has worn through leaving shiny vs dull yellow.

Hey, I got the grunge off, now I can attack the used-to-be "clear coat". Let's try. I'll test an area where the coating has worn down in various thickness to bare metal. Carb cleaner and brake cleaner remove paint but no effect whatever here. Phosphoric acid aluminum cleaner, scary but totally ineffective. Brass and stainless steel brushes bounce over it putting new meaning to protective coating. I've saved the paint stripper to last. Not a curl even on the thin edges leading to bare metal.

Well, I knew all of this from removing said stuff from my XS-650 Yamaha cases a few years back. Disassembly and wet sanding is the only way. Places you miss show up when you wire brush as places that need more sanding.

OK, getting back to the point. There's nothing easy about restoration but nothing more satisfying than the final piece that you have worked hours on. Here it is, back to spec. Bare metal, shafts turning with the least of effort, a really satisfying mechanical sound as you work the linkage, ready for the project. Again.

Crazy huh?

Maxie

That's an amazing looking piece Max! Can't wait to see it on the bike! Victor

I think the paint used on Honda cases (etc) is very tough and impervious. What I have seen done is to hand wetsand to cut thru the weathered yellowed clear coat snd then paint over that with a quality silver brake caliper paint. The factory paint serves as a good primer/base coat.

My 2c.

Thanks Bill for your input. Raw metal is hard to keep looking good. Being old, I remember Triumphs and owned a BSA. Matchless, Nortons, Velocettes and Aerials roamed the streets. Before the BSA, I owned a Jawa, all with polished aluminum cases. Semichrome was the polish. Lotsa work but real polished aluminum was the thing. It's just me hanging on to the past when things were done the hard way. Humor me. Even tonight I was fiddling with the brake plate and polish. My show Yamaha XS-650 cafe racer has plenty of aluminum area and takes hours to get it ready. Yes, there must be a better way but it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks. It's part of motorcycle past and it does keep me entertained. I probably should try some of the things you've mentioned. I also like the prototype blasted look particularly on competition bikes. Blast, spray on WD-40 before dirt and mud, use a cycle cleaner after the event and on with the WD-40 again. All of this polishing and blasting is certainly labor intensive, but it does have "The Look".

Max

You do what works for you. That bike us going to be a thing of beauty.
The Beemer has natural sand-cast finish on aluminum engine and frame parts. This surface weathers to a nice patina. At least down South. Up North the Winter salt on the roads causes corrosion and a new set of upkeep procedures.
On the Hodie I use that aluminum caliper paint. For the time being.

Hey Bill, tell me more about the caliper paint and where is it sold? I've got a few old rusty wheel assemblies around. They are sound but just, well, ugly I guess is the word. I'm toying with the idea of blasting the whole assembly and perhaps painting it. I've been using Krylon Metallics Dull Aluminum on small parts as it covers with really thin coats and is fairly durable and wipes off easily with lacquer thinner. I envision the whole wheel blasted and painted but leaving chrome on the outer edges where the tire irons hit. I might have an example soon. This wheel will probably be the first victim.

Max