Gears Not Engaging!!!

[viclioce]

OK new issue. I can get her to start. At first the shifter linkage wouldn't shift from first gear to any higher gear. I pulled the left stator coverage adjusted and made sure there was nothing in the way preventing the shifter ratchet from moving. Put her back together and watched the shifting linkage move through all 5 years. Put the small cover back on and started her up. Went down the driveway and couldn't find first gear! Tried 2nd. It sounded & felt like it moved into gear but it's not engaging! I tried working all the play I could out of the clutch cable to make sure it wasn't engaging the clutch. No luck! Where do I go from here???. Victor

[Bullfrog]

Get out your Workshop Manual and read the section on adjusting the shift mechanism. What I've read so far suggests that your shifter may be working just fine . . . but it is still out of adjustment (despite your effort to adjust it ).

But FIRST . . . check the foot change shaft (the shaft the shift lever clamps on) for freeplay in its bore. If the foot change shaft is sloppy in the bore . . . all bets are off on getting it to shift properly. In that case a shift cover re-build will be required.

Ed

[viclioce]

Ed. When I opened the cover earlier, the shifter arm was striking the inside of the magneto cover and the sliding pin was pushing it's way out into the space covered by the small cover!

Reading the manual, it says Measurement Method
Measure the inside face of the sliding pin. It should be 35.1mm from the magneto case. I'm assuming that means the inside of the small cover? That would put it way in the middle of the space between the outer cover & the inner cover. Does that sound right??? First gear is all the way out on the control shaft so I don't understand what I'm reading. Shouldn't I have the control shaft in 1st gear and the sliding pin meet the space between the end without much resistance? Or am I just not understanding this??? ; D Victor

[Zyx]

Mine bottoms on the cover and the end protrudes into the small cover, which is why it is there. As long as first engages when bottomed it isn't an issue. If it bottoms before it engages, it needs adjustment. Make sure the sliding foot is trapped in the end of the control shaft. This usually requires putting the control shaft somewhere around fourth gear, and shifting the ratchet to the corresponding position. That makes it easier to see and engage the parts. Get the rear wheel off the ground. Makes it easier to shift back and forth. Once together again, verify to have all gears before putting the hell back down and driving off. This stuff comes with time. In terms of number of parts, this is as simple as a five speed gets. But it is eccentric and needs learning.

[Bullfrog]

. . . re-read the paragraph.

Remove magneto cover assembly. Remove the foot change inside cover. Measure from the inside surface of the magneto cover . . .

Ed

[Bullfrog]

PS:

. . . and further down in the paragraph . . .

NOTE: If desired, the inside cover may be left in place -- in which case, the proper measurement is 37mm (1.45 in).

Ed

[viclioce]

So Ed. Do I understand you to mean that you measure from the Inside cover? The one that covers the shifter mechanism? I managed to adjust it some. Now getting gears 1,2 & 3 but it is a bit hard to shift. Rode it around the block and it started rainin. So I will adjust it more tomorrow. I should be able to get it.

Also, it seems to like the current carb settings when the motor is cold but not once it warms up. Needle has the circlip in the middle at 3, idle is out 2.5 turns and air screw is out 1.75 turns. Do you think I need to lean it up? I'm also at 7,000 feet in elevation . It got warm and started cutting out on me. ; D Victor

[Zyx]

Never adjust the carb on a cold engine. It has a starting circuit for "choke" duty, and after that it won't idle right until warm. Even if it idles great cold, still fully warm before making adjustment. Reset to default settings, warm it up, then adjust. It is okay to hold throttle around 2,000 rpm or so for a minute, or whatever goosing it takes. If your car had a carb, it would not idle cold, either, without help, so why should the bike?

If it won't run cold without making adjustments to more than idle speed, I would think something is also wrong with the timing and or compression. But adjusting mixtures when cold requires richer settings to work well, along with an elevated throttle stop, so it gets richer than it needs when warm, revs up, then runs like crap when warmed up. Usually leads to blubbering and extra smoke. The bike, not you. Set to default as your starting point. Check manual and spec sheet for those settings and for jets. Check your jets against the defaults so you know where you are. Write yours down in the manual next to the book defaults, or if the jets are the same, check them off. That way you will remember next year or whenever the question next arises. If you ultimately set mixtures to other than default and it works great, write those things down, including needle height.

Sounds laborious but it isn't.

[viclioce]

Well, I have no idea what the stock settings are. Seems at this point I have a 24mm carb, at least that's what I've been told. I have the air screw out 1.75 turns from all the way in. I have the idle screw at 2.5 turns out from all the way in, and the needle has the circlip at 3. I don't know where it was when I got it. There is no reed valve. She starts cold with one or two kicks. When she warms up she starts bogging down, and eventually stops running. I had to push it home last night as it started raining!

Also, I have a manual, but it's a Xerox copy and the top of page 64 is not readable until 2 sentences before the beginning of item 5. So I dont know what it says at the top of the page in either column. Looking for someone who can scan page 64 and email it to me!

So can I assume with the slide needle at 3 that it's too rich & I should raise it to 2 or 1 to lean it out a bit more? I'm really not a carb person so I really don't know how to proceed. Also this bike was set up for near sea level in California, and I'm at 7,000 feet in elevation here in Santa Fe. So I need all the help I can get carb wise!

I did manage to adjust the shifter. I think I need one more small adjustment to get it zeroed in. Is the Model 94 a close ratio tranny? Seems like it the way it is shifting. Bot is it just because it's still in need of adjustment?

Thanks for the continued support & help getting where I need to go! ; D Victor

[Zyx]

94 is a wide ratio with overdrive 5th gear. if jetted for sea level you probably need to rejet leaner by several steps. Main jet first. dropping the needle only helps the first half of throttle. by wide open the needle does nothing at all. so check your main jet number and order one or two that are smaller. you may need to go way smaller for that altitude. example, my 32 calls for a 240 main standard. at 6,300 I use a 190. big drop.

[Bullfrog]

Victor:

It may have something to do with the shoe boxes of tax stuff stacked on the scanner right now, but get set for the possibility that I may sound like a cantankerous old fart in this message. Since I am an old fart - being cranky is to be expected occasionally right? Ennnneywayeeee . . .

There is an old bit of advice experienced riders give to inexperienced riders when they are having problems: "Slow down. You'll go faster." HUH? When you are going at 110% and falling down, missing turns and running off the track . . . slowing down just a bit will shorten your lap times. The same sort of rule applies in the shop. When you don't take the time needed to read and understand shop manual instructions (the slow down part), you'll be doing the wrong things in the shop (the running off the track part). Example: When you see the word "inside" (in my message to you) which is in italics, bold face and underlined . . . that is a pretty good hint that, yes, the measurement takes place from the inside surface of the shifter cover.

Since you have been given TWO options on how to download the carb tuning information you need, you might want to think a bit about the appropriateness of asking other folks to spend about half an hour digging out the manual, scanning a page and emailing it you. This group is ready, willing and able to offer you advice and assistance . . . but not necessarily on your schedule. We all have things we are doing too.

Finally, I'd recommend that you find an experienced vintage two-stroke mechanic to tune your carb for your altitude. While you have been apparently been told that the carb was set up for sea level . . . we really don't KNOW that. If that is true, several components in your carb will probably need to be replaced with leaner items. However, inexperienced tuners installing leaner jetting can often result in a seized engine -- so caution is in order. Proper procedures would call for confirming that the float level is correct, then tuning the pilot jet size and pilot air screw setting . . . and then going on to proper main jet selection.

Ed (getting back to the shoe boxes)

[viclioce]

OK Ed. I went through the carb again today. There's no identifying marks on the pilot jet. The main jet is a 140 or at least that is what it looks like from pulling it out.

I'm still having an intermittent issue. When I go out to the bike cold, it seems to want to start. But as soon as it warms up, it doesn't want to run at all. My leg has gotten sore from kicking the bike so many times.

The problem I have is there are no vintage folks around Santa Fe. Don't know anyone here who knows about Hodakas at all.

I have this two sided tackle box full of all kinds of jets and needles and carb slides, chokes springs, you name it! I have about 21 VM2427 bowl gaskets I'd gladly give away because they don't fit my carb. Also have some 28 bowl gaskets and maybe three VM 26 bowl gaskets! They are free to whomever can use them! I can't. None of them fit this carb.

I'm so close. I wish there was someone who could come by and give me a hand with it. The pilot jet is assumed to be OK but I have about 6 others I could choose from! I just don't have any other main jets if I need to change that one. I've been adjusting the air screw and the idle screw but I'm not getting any measurable success. And I'm still getting the intermittent issue with it running and then not. It's getting spark just fine. I pulled the plug twice and can see it arcing across when I kick the bike so that's not an issue. The issue has to be how the carb is set up.

Oh and I went to the web sites you suggested and did not find any info to download on the carb pages which I asked about scanning. Sorry but not much luck there. I may not be looking in the right place on the sites you suggested but alas, no luck finding anything about carbs and the same info as you suggested earlier. And mine doesn't say anything about starting points. It says try one to two turns and if it doesn't help use a different jet. There's no real start point for me reading the manual I have. Sorry if I seem like I'm being an impatient pain in the butt. But I've been working on this bike for about 10 months now. This is my last step to get it running correctly.

I have a 2003 VL1500 Suzuki. I don't have these kinds of problems with it. I have great resources for it on line. Shop manuals, a fabulous forum (like this one!) and several individuals who know the bike inside out and offer set up info, tests, mods the whole nine yards. I've done wiring mods, added all kinds of not made for it parts and addons to the VL1500.

I had a Kawasaki F6 when I was younger and even spent time cutting rotary valves on it to increase power. I did a lot to that bike too. And I've restored a couple of other bikes in the past few years as well. This one is just being my patience tester! It just seems like this bike is a whole other creature.

Damn it. I wish I just had a carb genie,,,,,,,,,, Victor

[admin]

As usual I to am over my head with tax stuff, sausage co stuff, Preston Petty stuff and yes Hodaka stuff but felt the need to jump in and ask Victor a few questions. Sorry I have not followed the thread totally and cannot easily see the answers to my forthcoming questions in the posts above.
To jet a bike is easy if it is a stock set up at sea level or up to 1500 ft elevation but it seems Victor that you have a lot of variables
I assume that you are using a 24 mm Mikuni carb and mating to an (95) Combat Wombat cylinder?? Is this correct?
You are at 7000 ft elevation?
Do you possibly have an altimeter?? I doubt it but thought to ask.

I too sense your frustration from the posts and am sorry for you but I think Ed is trying to explain as politely as possible that it is hard to help from afar especially if we do not have all the correct information. Everyone here on this chart group is overwhelming happy and willing to help you but you first need to help us to help you.

You mention you think you have a 24mm carb or at least that is what you have been told. Sorry that is not enough information to try and help. Do you have a 24mm carb or do you not have a 24mm carb. Big difference in trying to help and take the time to try and solve the problem for you if it turns out you have a 28mm carb instead of a 24mm carb. Or a 26mm carb etc... First and foremost Victor "you" need to identify what carburetor you actually do have. Then folks can start to help.

I cannot see how you can easily mate a 24mm carb to an (95) cylinder. It can be done but not easily so I personally am doubtful you do have a 24mm carb. Please post a few photos of the carburetor.

Also the bike starts fine but once it gets warm will not run? Sounds like a condenser or low compression. What is the compression of the bike tested while the engine is cold and the throttle wide open ??

Even though you say you are at 7000 ft this changes all the time with jetting. If barometric pressure changes, temperature etc.. these all account for accurate jetting that is why I always carry an altimeter when I race to get the jetting correct before I even start the bike at a new location.

Sorry to sound like a bummer but you have to give much better information and you need to be patient-Sorry
You mention you wish you "had a carb genie" you do you have actually 555 carb genie's here on this group. Be patient and go slow you will get things done faster that way. By you getting frustrated is getting us frustrated.
Paul

[Bullfrog]

Victor:

While it is possible that your Pilot Jet does not have a size number on it . . . that would be extremely rare. Would you take another look - with magnification?

While you are in there, please identify the following:
Pilot Jet
Throttle Valve Cut-away ("slide") number stamped on the bottom face
Needle designation stamped on the needle
Main Jet size

Please also measure the outside diameter of the throttle valve (slide)
A picture of the pilot jet would be nice (there are two styles used in VM carbs - photo would show us which one you have)

Ed
PS: On the Yahoo Groups - Hodaka Owners Group
- Find "Files" at the top of the page -- click on it
- Scroll down to a folder with something mentioning carbs in the name - click on it
- Scroll down to the file with something about VM Manual
- bingo

[viclioce]

OK. I will pull the carb apart again. I will check the pilot jet with a magnifier and get all the info you asked for. Should take me about an hour. It's currently 10 am MSDT locally.

I really do appreciate your making this effort with me. If I seemed like I was going off half cocked or some other perception, I appologize. It's just frustrating to be so close and not have help to get where I need to go. And please remember, reading what someone says is t the same as hearing what someone says or watching it, for some people. Not everyone is as good with reading manuals as some folks are. Me especially.... Victor

Pas. I'm still waiting for approval to join the Yahoo Group. Submitted yesterday.

[admin]

Ed is absolutely correct a photo of the pilot jet will tell us if you have a 24mm carb or not.
Thank you
Paul

[Zyx]

Victor,

The entire specifications list for each bike is on the Strictly Hodaka website. Go to the main page, click shop by schematic, look at the top of the page. You should see a photo of a typical bike for your model number. Just below that photo is a line of text. It is not set in a box but in fact constitutes two links. The left, or first data, is a link to the specifications for your machine. The right link is a link to a page of manuals and such pertinent to your bike, should you need to buy one.

Click on the specifications link. You will get a .pdf file of the complete specs. This is not an exploded diagram, and none of the diagram pages contains tuning data, only part numbers and prices.

Assuming you have a model 95 engine, the correct carb is a 28, not a 24 Mikuni. A 24 can be mounted, but not as easily as it might seem. The best way to know which you have is to physically measure the throttle bore. I do this from the engine side of the carb, and be aware that the bore per se is measured inside where the slide transects the bore, and sometimes the bore at the engine side is a millimeter bigger or so, but you can't mistake a 28 for a 24. Measure it and you will know what you have.

Next, the spec sheet shows a standard main jet for the 28mm Mikuni is a 190 so it sounds as if you have a stock jetting. For your altitude you may need to drop to a 160 or 170, but that is hard to just say this will work, that won't. The carb is complex in that it has several operational phases relating to throttle setting, and all those jets and needles interact unless you are dead idle, or wide open. Everything in between is a blend.

Then, the spec sheet shows that the idle mixture is 1 1/2 turns out from all the way in. Don't jam it tight when doing this. Turn is down until you feel it bottom out, then back off a turn and a half. Usually, this is all the adjustment it will ever need. If yours is two and a half, it is too far out.

After that, you need to define for us what "running badly" means to you. Badly is a subjective term, not a diagnostic term. Describe what it does, what you are doing when it does it, approximately how much throttle is involved, and whether the engine pops like it is starving, or blubbers like it has way too much gas. And is choking on fuel.

We would also need to know if the carb overflows from the spill vent with the gas on and engine running. And, where the float level is set. Lots of variables.

I would also need to know if it ran okay before you took it apart. If it did and now it doesn't, it isn't the carb. There are so many variable in the makeup of an internal combustion engine, that there never will be a simple, single answer to all problems. Set the carb to stock settings. These are published in the manual, and shown on the spec sheet on the SH website. That is your default starting point. Starting somewhere else makes it hit or miss in finding the issue. If it still won't run right, change the spark plug. If it still won't run right, check the timing. If it still won't run right, check compression with a pressure gauge. If that's okay and it still won't run right, do a leak down test.

As you can see, diagnostics is not as simple as where do I set my idle screw. Learning how to do this takes years. Learning to do it by remote control, over the Internet, is an art form.

I recommend you start a new thread, and begin with your engine and frame number, a photo of the bike, a close up of the engine and carb, and a shoe list of the things you did, such as break open the cases and replace seals and bearings. Anything that you have done that might impact the result. To diagnose the issue without being there, we need information of a specific type. Even a video clip of the engine running badly can help so we can hear what it is doing.

You can't expect to learn all you need to know in a short time span when most of us have been at this for 40 years or more and still don't know everything there is. But to diagnose you're oboes, we need specifics. Photos are very helpful. Audio or video clips even more so.

Keep at it. It takes time to work out bugs.

[viclioce]

Carb slide = 27mm OD (as best as I can measure)
label says 2.5
Needle says 4E1
Main jet appears to be a 140
Pilot jet is a 40

I have the following pilot jet sizes:
30, 40, 45 & 50
I don't have additional main jets.

I can't ID the needle orifice. No markings on it. Appears to possibly been scratched off by PO using bad tools? However I have 2 dozen or more in different sizes. BTW the 140 main jet, if I am identifying it correctly, bolts into the bottom of the carb bowl on this carb, at about a 45* angle to the floats, if that helps.

Hers the pics. Sorry if they post upside down. I have no control over that. ; D Victor

[admin]

Victor it looks to be a VM2400 carb for a Super Rat (93) that had the jetting modified from stock. Still need to verify carb size.
Just for giggles is there a number stamped on the head of the banjo bolt that you removed to see the main jet size??
The main jet is the hex head brass jet that screws into that Banjo bolt in the photos. The banjo bolt is at the bottom of your float bowl.
Paul

[rtboone]

Greetings all

Can't Victor just measure the I.D. of the carb outlet (closest to the intake) to verify the carb size?

Tom

[viclioce]

Paul et al. There is no number stamped on the head of the banjo bolt. It's cut for a slotted screw driver. But, if you go back to the post with the photos, the main is labeled 140. If you open the picture & zoom in, it becomes easier to see. Same with the pilot jet being 40. The carb slide measured 27-27.5? mm. Can't get a closer measurement than that with a steel ruler. So I am now assuming it's may be a 28mm carb???

Everything I posted was based on what OTHER PEOPLE on this forum were telling me when I posted the pics in the other thread. The flange of the carb is marked ISO on the right side and the left side is labeled 248 with A1 under the 248. I posted this and people kept saying it was a 24mm carb. So that is what I was passing along. I can only go on what other people have said, not being a carb expert. If they were wrong, that's where I got my info from. I'm assuming that since the carb slide measures around 27-27.5 mm that this is a 28mm carb? Is that correct? I tried a Google search for "248 A1" but nothing showed up. It is a Mikini, that's for certain because it is labeled as such.

I don't know what the model numbers mean, which you said in your last post. I'm not at all familiar with Hodakas, other than the FrankenBike I have now. This is my first one. My life sure would have been easier if the Model 3 I bought was all original, and not a FrankenBike, but I can't change that either.... ; / Victor

[viclioce]

And I was wrong about not having any extra main jets. It appears I have in excess of 30 in various sizes (see attached photo). I also have an extra banjo bolt, still in the shrink wrap, a VM24/286 is what it's labeled. And I have 2 additional slides, in addition to the 2.5 I posted in the pics. I have a 1.0 & a 1.5 slide as well (see attached photo).

I also have 5 additional needles, a 319194 also labled #5EJ13, a 4J13, 2, 4J6, and one I can't read because of discoloration. Then there are 5 others which are much longer than the one in the carb, so I am guessing the longer ones are not for this carb.

I can add or change anything suggested, as long as I can find the main jet size someone may think I need. All I need is some ideas, and I hope my guess that this is, in fact, a 28mm carb is accurate now. Patiently waiting.

And yes, I know I am at 7,000 feet in elevation, give or take maybe 20 feet at my house. I may also want to ride at elevations as high as 10-12,000 feet on occasion and could drop down to as low as possibly 5500 feet in elevation depending on where I would choose to ride in off road situations. That's Northern NM in a nutshell. ; / Victor

[viclioce]

Oh as a reference point, this is the tackle box I got full of carb parts. It is two sided and has more parts than just for this carb. I am willing to part with any of the parts I have in here which do not fit my carb. I have slides. Choke assemblies, needles, floats and float hangers, bowl gaskets, idle screws, O rings, springs,carb caps... you name it! ; D Victor

[viclioce]

OK. I looked at the Model 93 Ace 100 schematics as Paul earlier said it looks like that one. It appears to match my carb, and the Model 93 has a VM2400 carb. Does the VM2400 carb have a slide which measures 27-27.5mm?

The banjo bolt extra I found in my box, still in the original cardboard & shrink wrap also says VM2400 on it. It matches the banjo bolt on this carb and appears to be the same size. So I'm guessing this is the carb on this bike. Anyone else care to jump in at this point? ; ) Victor

[viclioce]

OK. Main jets.

I have identified that I have a 140 now in the carb's banjo bolt.

I also have the following identified additional mains I can put in.

A 420, a 240, I have 5, 200's, a 195, 2, 190's, a 180, a 100 & a 95.

That is 13 of the 42 jets I have. The rest have either no markings at all and are differing sized apertures, or they have one or two of the six sides with a long groove the length of the side.

Are any of these something I can use successfully to tune this VM2400 for 7,000 feet in elevation along with my pilot jet options of 30,40, 45 & 50? And given a specific set of jets and the choices of needles and slides I posted earlier, what does any think would be my best option?

And if we operate under the assumption that this IS a VM2400 carb, what, at least would be the sea level specs for jettng, needles and slides?

As a point of I formation I present the following. I have a collection of 42 main jets. Out of the 42, I can identify 13 of them, with size markings stamped into one of the sides of the hex end opposite the threads. I have 29 more jets, all of varying size, which have either no ascertainable size marking or simply a long straight line traveling perpendicular to the jet threads on one or more of the hex sides. This would mean 69% of the mains I have do not have any identifying marks. That's a far cry from Ed's statement that it would be "unusual" for a jet to have no size markings on it. It helps to understand that I am not just being ignorant or lazy when it comes to finding jet sizes. I'm not saying Ed is wrong, I'm just saying that's my kind of luck! And I even cleaned all 6 sides of the ones I can't identify with a pencil eraser to try and expose some markings. It actually uncovered the markings on several of the 13 I can identify. Victor