93 early super rat frame color

[fullchoke]

Hello,
Is there a known formula? I was thinking of power coating it, but that is up in the air, and I don't know how well that can be matched.
The frame I have has been painted with a brush anyway so the color is not likely correct.
Thanks

[socalhodaka]

Look on the inside of the air cleaner, the powder coat can come really close to matching it.

[admin]

Kelly the aircleaner and frame were two different colors.
Paul

[socalhodaka]

Kelly the aircleaner and frame were two different colors.
Paul

Ok smarty. You school me again. Thanks, that's why we love this chat group so much.

[admin]

XXOO

[Zyx]

For what it is worth, I prefer paint to powder. After using powder coated products on my race Jeep for years, only to have to strip and paint within a year or two, I don't even consider powder as an option. If you are building a show case piece, maybe then. But if it will see rough use, no. Powder coat looks really nice when new but it is electrostatically applied, then baked to melt the powder. The coating grabs the surface but has no real chemical bond on the metal, which has to be meticulously prepped to stick well anyway. Nooks and crannies are hard to get clean and neutral for coating and become points of failure for moisture.

I recently painted my frame and such with 2K epoxy gray primer. It bonds at the molecular level and is chemically neutral when cured. It also pretty much stops rust from creeping under the paint because of that bond. PC will not stop rust from creeping in at any imperfection like a scratch or chip. Both epoxy and PC are tedious to remove if you ever have to recoat, but I would rather remove PC than epoxy because it will generally peel off where epoxy won't, and while PC will more or less respond to chemical strippers, epoxy doesn't, so you have to mechanically remove it. So if you plan to build a show bike, powder coat works great. If you are building a work bike, paint is easier to apply and especially to maintain, and done right will do a better job of fighting rust.

In my opinion, powder coat has become popular because it is cheap and easy. It looks good initially and is not challenging to apply. It does not have the VOC problems faced by commercial paint facilities and does not require an experienced pro to apply right. It goes on in one coat, and when cooled, it is ready to use. Entry level PC equipment is under $50K so lots of guys can start up workshop businesses doing powder. Not so with professional paint. So the market has shifted, but not because powder is a superior product for the end user, but because it is really low cost for the facility and because it has been successfully marketed.

Some guys have great luck with powder coat. I never have. Maybe I am harder on equipment than some. But I only rolled the Jeep twice so maybe not. I can say that all of the components that started with powder lasted one year or less, and now have paint that is twelve years old and counting. One thing a powder coat facility can do for you is strip the parts to bare metal usually at a fair price.

[Gary G]

I have had two frames powder coated. One 93 and 1 92 by powder tech. They have a perfect match for the early frames. Not use where you are but shipping can't be too bad. I paid 200 for complete sandblasting and powder coating. I think Paul has used them as well. I would have to dig up the color code, let me know if you need it.

Gary


http://www.powdertechinc.com/

[rlkarren]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think I've got a near perfect color match on my Model 93 Rat. The photo shows it more red than it really is. It's actually got just a hint of orange in it. I used the space under the VIN tag to color match. When I first painted it, my wife asked me why I chose Orange. But it turned more red with a hint of orange after the clearcoat and curing time.

I would also agree with AZ Shorty. I prefer paint because it much easier to repair. I use a 2-stage paint. Base coat/clear coat. In rattle-cans even. It helps that I've got experience in the body and paint business though.

$0.02

Roger

[fullchoke]

Thanks guys for all the advice. I have no experience with powercoating, but thought it was a stronger, tougher finish more resistant to wear, scratches and chips, a better for riding paint if you will. Sounds like I was wrong. I'm not building a show bike, but one to ride that is as correct as I can get it. It will be ridden at Hodaka Days, but probably not this year as it needs a lot of help and parts. I wanted to start with the frame, is there a color code formula for the 93 model that I can take to the paint store?

Thanks

[bchappy]

fullchoke I would not say your are wrong on the powder coating. Everybody has their preferences. I prefer the powder coating as it may not be easier to repair but it will need less repair than paint as it is a harder coating. And if you are lucky enough to get a color that can be matched with paint you can always touch it up with paint and it not even be noticed.
My 2 cents worth.

[Zyx]

Actually, power coating is a much softer coating than most paint, certainly softer than catalysed paint, such as a 2K paint. If it were not for its flexibility, it would tend to chip readily. Because of its lack of bond to the base metal. I have yet to see a powder coat from any source that withstands contact as well as paint. Bumpers, rocker guards, sway arms, and such, all powder coated from the factory, all failed in use in off road driving in Alaska and off road racing in Australia.

Whereas, we all have, at least originally, enamel painted frames and swingarms on our Hodaka's, many of which are pushing 50 years in service and most of which still show signs of sticking to the metal. I could not even get the original paint off my 100B with chemical stripper. Had to sand and abrasive blast it off. Even then it was not easy, and there was no rust whatever anywhere that was not already scratched down to bare steel.

[BrianZ]

My race bike is powder coated and I find the finish to be really tough. For me it has shown better wear resistance than paint in the areas where my MX boots rub against the frame. So far it has been tougher than my BSA with 2 part epoxy paint, but to be fair my BSA was painted in the 80's. The thing I don't like about it is that it is really hard to remove if I need to get any welding repairs done to the frame. I have about 3 seasons on it and there is no peeling. I would hazard a guess that if the bare metal is not prepped or cleaned properly the powder coating could peel. Sandblasting should improve adhesion as well.

That's my 5 cents (Canada discontinued the penny)

Brian

[taber hodaka]

Hodaka came painted so I paint my own. I control the color and to me paint is very durable. Although I paint my own I think locally I can get a prepared hodaka painted cheaper than powder coated, that means I prepared the parts and provide the paint. The advantage to Powder coating to me is they prepare apply and when it is returned it is ready to go together. A Hodaka is a Hodaka they all look good to me . There is no right or wrong answer. ------------Clarence

[fullchoke]

One of the reasons that I originally thought of powdercoating is that powdercoating is the rage with automotive and truck wheels. Like I said earlier I really know little about powdercoating except the reputation. This is actually the 1st I have heard that it not the preferred coating for a frame. I'm actually leaning away from powdercoating because I like to do things myself but I would do it if it was an appreciably better product. Hopefully somebody has a paint formula they can share. Did Hodaka have a name for their colors? If they did that could be fun!
Brian thanks for your input as well. Where your boots rub on the frame and engine cases has always been a good indication of the use a motorcycle has seen and if that area stays good because of powdercoating that is big plus for a bike that is going to be ridden and still thought of as an investment after the end cost of everything.

Thanks

[taber hodaka]

my color see the couch and rug me wife says no no. ----Clarence

[Dale]

Let's not forget that Paul has the paint right here for sale. Type "paint" in the search bar on the Strictly Hodaka site. It can be applied with automotive spray equipment or you can use the Preval spray system which is nearly as easy as rattle cans. It works great!
Dale

[MTRob]

Clarence, Bike looking good. I had both my Hodakas powdercoated and they turned out great. I believe they will last longer than painting them.
They were sand blasted first with I think makes a big difference. Plus we have a great company right here in Kalispell MT that does alot of bike stuff because he is a gear head and loves doing bikes.
MTRob

[Zyx]

The pros and cons of powder coating versus paint can be argued all day, mostly because it is not an apples to apples comparison. But the one factor that can't be argued is the inability of powder coat, regardless of its chemical variation, to prevent rust. Here is a quote from the website of Commercial Powder Coating, Inc., on the question of rust:

"Does Powder Coating prevent rust?

Powder Coating is durable and very long-lasting depending on its environment and how the items are used. It is not, however, a rust prevention. Pre-treatment and/or primer coating is required for longer coating life. All exterior items should be primered and coated to fight corrosion."



Most discussion you will find, such as the comments we have made in this thread, are largely anecdotal. The comments of a commercial applicator and supplier are not. I found an interesting observation on one bike forum regarding clear powder coat. Didn't know it came in clear, but I guess it does. The guy liked the way it turned out because the heat process of melting the powder turned the steel underneath a straw color which he liked. However, he soon observed rust creeping under the clear coat from various sorts of imperfections, and had to start over with something else.

So it is with color coat, or for that matter, regular poly-urethane paint if not properly primed first with a rust preventive primer. Any scratch, chip, flex crack, bubble, porosity, or literally any point of ingress for oxygen and moisture will start a rust site that will creep under the coat until the coating delaminates. Bare steel begins to rust almost immediately after sanding or other prep so some rust is already on the steel before it can be coated with whatever you intend to use. Since nearly all powder coat applicators apply powder coat directly to bare metal, all such applications are subject to failure due to rust incursion even before the powder is applied. Can't be helped, and it doesn't matter how the metal is mechanically prepped. Prep is vital to all types of coating, but only a rust preventive prime coat can fight rust incursion. Bead blasting will create a rough surface that any top coat needs to adhere, but adhesion alone only makes the coating stick to the surface. Once rust starts, that adhesion layer is defeated.

So if you want to powder coat your bike frame, at least have it primed first with either a phosphate primer, an acid etch primer, or an epoxy primer that has a fighting chance of prohibiting rust from getting between the top coat and the bare metal.

[Charlie R]

While it's not a Super Rat, I used this same powdercoat finish on my Super Rats. RAL 3020 is the code.

[MTRob]

I picked powder coating because where I get it done, their fast looks great, not the cheapest but will out live me.
MTRob

[hodakamax]

Question--does the powder coating process get hot enough to damage the rubber swing-arm bushings? Those are not easy to remove as many of you know.

Max

[MTRob]

No I asked the them the same question. When I got the frame back it still had the same push and pull on the bearings (up-down) when I gave it to them.
MTRob