Identification

[squid on a 300]

The frame tag says it a B frame but chart on this site have the 5 digits in series as an A frame..I'm assuming the frame tag is correct...and the chart is off:?:

[socalhodaka]

1970 Ace100B Model 92B Frame letter B 46813 to 47712

[squid on a 300]

I thought the "Letter" in the Frame ID for the 92B was an "A" and the 100MX (model 93) was a "B"..at least that i how I'm interpreting the chart

[BrianZ]

Strange. Ken's book assigns the 47541 S/N to the A prefix Ace 100B. Other sources assign this S/N to the model 93 Super Rat. The tag clearly says the bike is a "competition vehicle", which would tend to confirm its a Rat.

I smell a Rat (pun intended).

Brian

[Charlie R]

I agree with the Model 93 ID. A couple of differences how to tell (other than the frame tag). It shouldn't have the air pump tabs or coil mounts welded on the frame and there will be a small hole drilled in the RH tool box bracket. That is where the exhaust spring attaches to the frame.

Charlie R.

[Zyx]

I would have to say that the data has been shifted one line. In the instant example, the "B" designation is correct as to the type of bike, Super Rat, but wrong as to the number sequence, that is, the number falls within a range one line up or down from the Super Rat B line of data.

I ran my bike on the new chart, and it is wrong as well. I have a 1971 100B, model 92, manufactured September 1970, frame number A-46737. Unfortunately, the number falls within a numerical range identified in the chart as a model 93 Super Rat. Mine is a one owner, I remember the day I bought it and still have the original bill of sale, bike, so I know what it is without looking it up.

The chart used to correctly identify my bike, so my thought is that this chart is an Excel spreadsheet or something of the sort, and something got shifted in the chart that pushed some of the data up or down one line, don't know which.

Something that we create something like this chart, and have looked at many times errors become invisible. I didn't look at this new chart, either, until this post came up, and now I know the chart is in error.

Take a look at the original database, Paul, and you should be able to fine the shift, and correct the data without having to rewrite the whole thing. Hopefully.

[admin]

Gotta be a quick reply. Way to busy to get deep into this.

"squid on a 300" are you Paul Towns??
While three of us were working very hard on the book I received an email from Paul Towns stating a discrepancy in our ID page specifically had to do with a bike that our list showed as Ace 100 based on the frame number but the bike had a "B" designation. This was news to the three of us working on the book. I had asked for photos of the steering head plate but never received them so we were unsure if the issue was solved and just moved forward with what we had.

One of the things about doing the book was to get it as correct as we could with what information we had or were provided.If possible things were double and triple checked then verified by those who were there back in the day.
There were several different production sheets we have in our possession or had access to. Some matched some did not. Some gave production run numbers along with the start production number and the ending production number. Ken ,Ed and myself were working full days many days straight to go through and figure out all the bikes identification information. I would say that the identification of the Hodaka models and production numbers was one of the hardest and most time consuming of issues working on the book. We knew that no matter how hard we worked and how much information we had something like this might pop up.

Obvious to me this is a Super Rat based on the ID plate but based on the information charts and lists we have this frame # still shows to be listed as an Ace 100B. We could not make any changes to what was to be published unless we had proof in a photo or hands on of this discrepancy in the records. Now I can see it in this photo and it makes more sense.
We will get this sorted out. It still is fun when you think you know something but are shown differently. I love to learn even to this day about the Hodaka history.
Thanks
Paul

[RichardMott]

So much for the Quick Reply Paul..

[admin]

Yup

[BrianZ]

Perhaps an owners registry would help to get a handle on serial numbers?

Brian

[RichardMott]

There is one on the Yahoo Hodaka Owners Group. I have not visited that site for some time.

[squid on a 300]

Paul
I'm not Paul Towns...I'm just an old spode trying to right a wrong that is about 40 years old...As a kid I wanted a Hodaka in the worst way . Had a bunch of part time jobs (paper route, bus boy, even worked on a garbage truck), and finally saved the money to get one...but the parents said NO WAY! I have been riding off road for the last 20 years and made up my mind in December of last year that I would heal the emotional scars of my adolescence and find my Hodaka from 40 years ago..I have been learning a ton about these bikes and am really enjoying the hunt for my very own.
You guys have a pretty cool site here....

[admin]

Thanks Squid! If you are not Paul Towns then your bike, Paul's bike and I think Greg's bike ( 1970 Super Rat) have the frame numbers that fall into our Ace 100B category. The good thing is that we can fix this on the website but the bad thing is that the book cannot be changed.

In all fairness and honesty Ken was insistent that all of the corresponding documents even though some conflicted with others be printed in the book. But the books publisher would not listen and did it his way. At least you folks would have had an idea what we were up against.
No matter I am still dang proud of the book and what it stands for. I am also extremely proud to have worked with Ken and Ed on this project.

Lots going on here but we will get this identification glitch fixed.
Thanks for pointing this out !!
Paul

[Zyx]

As between Squid and myself, we have the same problem, in mirror image. He has a Super Rat the number of which now falls on the 100B line, and I have a 100B of the same vintage with very close number which now falls on the Super Rat line.

Not having access to source data, I can only identify the error that our two situations point out. That is, the third and fourth columns identifying "Ace 100B" and "92B", and "Ace 100MX" and "93", are reversed for our year and number range. For whatever reason, the chart identifies which line on the original chart this data was found. Without the original chart for side by side comparison, this data column is irrelevant to the end user, as well as confusing. But, using the line reference that is on the chart, columns 3 and 4 for rows 5 and 10 are reversed. Change those two data entries so that the 100B reference identified as row 10 is moved to row 5, and move the entries in those same columns from row 5 to row 10, and the rest of the data appears to be correct. I have no idea if the total production numbers are correct or reversed, and can't identify what "A/C" refers to. I am pretty sure my bike did not come with air conditioning -- unless you were running about 60 down the road.

I assume this is just an editing oversight. As a paralegal for the fed for 17 years, I did legal documents, charts, spreadsheets and so on by the 10's of thousands of words each year, and I know how easy it is to miss an editing malfunction like this. No big deal, but tough to notice when going over something as esoteric as a data chart with numbers.

The old style charts that only identified the starting numbers for each model run would correctly identify the bike by frame number, but would not identify the start and stop occlusions. This new chart does this, so if one wants to know the intricacies of manufacturing, the new chart offers something the old chart did not. But it is also far more complex. Before, we didn't really know that numbers started and stopped, or that the production line would build 600 of one model, then build 600 of another, then go back to building another 600 of the first model. For the historian, this is valuable information. For most of us, not so much.

I would be glad to comb out the chart, but would need source data to do it, so that is probably not a practical thing to do, living in Arizona so far away from the library of Hodaka data. But for now, I am reasonably certain that it is the juxtaposition of the model name and numerical designation to the frame number range that is transposed for rows 5 and 10.

[admin]

Greg thank you! I may take you up on your offer. I just need to speak to Ed and Ken first. I have been trying to reach "Kenny" the past few days but as of yet not heard back. I assume he is hanging around Frank Wheeler's tee pee on his annual walkabout.

Providing you the documentation via scanned emails is not a problem. This is the same way Ken and Ed received the majority of the information.
Might be nice to have another set of eyes on this too!! Besides I like working with you.
It will be very nice to take another look at this to try and get it right.

As for the AC and such on our chart this is something that does not need to be there. This was a part of the original documents and does none of us any good at this point.
Thanks Greg!
Paul