Clutch adjustment

[Rusty]

Hi All,
Been tearing the old Hodaka around every chance I can get since I got fixed up again. Aside from some carb adjustment and some pesky leaking petcocks. I need to adjust my clutch. Problem is I can't find my manual anywhere. I must of left it at my friends house who is away all day. I can feel it still engage if I'm in first at a light. It wants to pull a bit. It's a fairly new clutch I think I need to add some rigs, but again they are at my friends house!!! Hoping to just readjust first and see where that gets me. If I remember correctly you adjust it at the engine to a certain tolerance and then the lever. Thanks all

[Rusty]

Hi got my manual, but I have some questions. I haven't opened it up yet going to get some oil first. It's a fairly new clutch pack. I have the lever and at the gearbox adjusted to spec, but in first with the clutch pulled it I can still feel it engage, it pulls pretty good. I have to hold it back. The the cable is backed out at the lever to it's max. Anyway I found some shims, 2 I can't remember how many sizes there are 3? These are on the thicker side. I'm wondering with it pulling that bad if the shims will do anything? Or if I should just go ahead and replace the clutch. It's a brand new cable, it, just seems a tad long since the adjusters are backed almost all the way out? Thanks looking forward to digging in and learning something new about the old ace.

[junker2k]

To check and adjust the clutch, first check the clutch case side . Take the cable loose from the handlebar lever, now check the free movement on the lever at motor. That lever should move by pulling it up with you FINGER (1/8 inch or so) till it stops. If it will not move then you need to remove a shim on the throw out bearing or it moves more than 1/4 inch you will need to add a shim. If you have to make adjustment with a shim this can be checked by just setting the cover on the motor, hold in place and move the lever. When you get the movement then put the cover back
on and check again. If you adjust the cable with no free movement on the motor side, the clutch will drag or slip.
Hope this will help
Jack K

[Rusty]

Thanks Jack

I think I got you. Slack the cable, move the arm on the clutch cover to check freeplay and add/sub shims accordingly. They don't really explain it like that in the manual. I got about a quarter inch of play. Hopefully those two shims are enough. If not I think I have a brand new clutch pack laying around.

Thanks!!!

[Bullfrog]

I'd like to offer a bit more information.

-- If there is no freeplay at the clutch lever on the engine, you can't be sure that the clutch is being allowed to fully engage (so it might slip). But it should not drag with this condition (no freeplay) since ALL of the handlebar clutch lever movement is being translated into clutch releasing movement. If there is clutch drag with NO freeplay at the engine clutch lever, this is an indication of a problem in the clutch (warped plate?)

Ed
PS: Jack, would you send me an e-mail? It seems the address I have for you is no longer good.

[Rusty]

Hello Ed,
Thank you, I loosened my clutch cable and the lever on the case has too much free play from what I understand reading the replies. About a quarter in or so. I have two shims, hopefully that will be enough. Hope to check it tonight weather permitting

[Bullfrog]

The factory spec. is 3/32" of freeplay measured at the end of the clutch lever on the engine case. It might be good to know that a respected racer of Hodies purposefully sets up his clutch lever freeplay (at the engine) at 3/8"(!). This setting still allows him to get full disengagement of the clutch at the starting line AND allows for gobbies of wear on the clutch friction disks at a given race without getting into the situation of "using up" all the available freeplay. (Note that as the clutch friction disks wear, clutch lever freeplay (at the engine) WILL be reduced.)

Your reported 1/4" of freeplay at the engine ought to allow for complete clutch dis-engagement . . . but shimming to achieve 1/8" or 3/32" should assure complete dis-engagement.

Of course you could have a warped steel plate or friction disk . . . which would mean you'll never get full dis-engagement (and would probably allow clutch slipping under certain situations too!)

What oil are you using? I found that switching from the factory recommended non-detergent 30 wt. motor oil to Belray 70 or 80 wt motorcycle transmission oil greatly improved clutch smoothness/action. (Remember, the recommendation for non-detergent 30 wt dates from 1964 - possibly earlier. There are better options now.)

Ed

[MTRob]

ED
I have been using Red Line 80W Gear oil with shockproff, all-synthetic oil. It was designed for optimal wet clutch operation on motorcycles.
Works real good. Redline has a great name for performance oils. Have you ever used it. I have for years even use there, 10W-30 in my trucks.
MTRob

[Rusty]

Hello all thank you. Been a bit since I changed oil but I used an 80 or 90. I put the shims I had in and the oil def looks like its due. I tilted the bike on its side so I wouldn't have to drain the oil. Two things, it's still grabbing, bad oil warped disc??? I had the free play pretty dialed in maybe a bit more than spec. Also when I buttoned it back up looked like oil coming out the shift case. Took it off looked like some oil was coming from behind the counter shaft sprocket. Thanks all!!

[Rusty]

Hello, despite all your advice I am still having problems. Observations, gear oil was shot, the clutch basket was loose!, the bolt was a little loose.
I found some old clutch baskets, one was a freshly rebuilt one. I put it in and even with all my shims I had almost an inch of freeplay?? I have enough shims to fill the complete recess in the pressure plate. I replaced the old basket and was able to achieve correct freeplay. I adjusted the lever and I can feel the clutch drag when I pull it in still. Should I feel it totally disengage WITHOUT any oil in the case?? Ha and a bit about that I drained the oil it was a 11 mil bolt not 14? Not sure how the P.O. managed that. Next step is to tear apart the baskets. Guess I'm wondering about the excessive freeplay from the new basket that I rebuilt (it's been awhile maybe I put it together wrong) Also about adjusting the clutch with out oil. Should It still totally disengage without oil (I'm assuming it should)

thanks all

[bchappy]

You say the clutch basket was loose and the bolt was a little loose. Check the pinion bushing that the clutch spins on when disengaged. If the basket was loose it will grind off the end of the pinion bushing and even wear a grove in the hub causing a side drag when the clutch is disengaged. Maybe a new pinion bushing is all that is needed,

[Dale]

Also, are you positive that you have the correct thrust washer installed? It is critical too... I have encountered multiple cases of the incorrect washer installed. This other post has the details.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=709&p=3134&hilit=ro ... otor#p3134
Dale

[Rusty]

Hello, thanks for your replies...
bchappy, good point. The pinion bushing did have some "damage" on one end. It had a little burr facing outwards and into one of the grooves. I took a small file and smoothed it out. Is there a spec on the size of the bushing so I can measure it?? Hello ddvorak, it is the thrust washer that was in there. Not to say it is wrong. It is installed the right way, again is there a spec on it so I can measure?
I'm leaning towards the pinion gear since it did have visual damage and the the clutch basket nut was loose!!!! It was running fine for awhile so possibly the nut started to loosen recently and caused wear on the bushing?

Thanks all!!! Again you are a fountain of knowledge and I am learning a lot. Hopefully soon my experiences will help others as yours help me!!

[Pep]

I think this came from Ed originally
-Laurie
P.S. Not sure what model you're working on...this is for a 125cc

[Rusty]

Apologies 69 ACE 100...
What is the clutch washer on the bottom?
If anyone can confirm length of ace pinion. I have my "parts bike" I'm going to pull one from as I've been wanting to 1st rebuild. Going to grab it tonight. It may be worn too, but at least I'll have a comparison.

Thanks all

[Rusty]

Hi, went to my buddy's, took the engine I want to rebuild out of the b+. I removed all the clutch parts. I will install them tomorrow and see what happens. Questions: 1 where does the "Clutch thrust washer inside" go and 2. I noticed in the other clutch the clutch rotor gear and pinion gear were a really tight fit, hard to pull apart...on the B+ clutch they fit nice and smooth. Just an observation. Thanks

[Dale]

The thin washer (outside thrust washer) will sit inside the rotor gear. Here is a picture that I have of my Ace 90 during rebuild.
Dale

[Rusty]

thank you! Inside. I will put it all back together after work. Hopefully, smooth sailing, hopefully no more questions for you

[Dale]

Speaking of clutches... If you are doing a dis-assembly/assembly of the clutch basket, here is an idea. It makes me a bit mental to turn the screw heads against all of the pressure of the inner springs. It seems to me that it is pretty hard on both threads and screw heads. I use 3 small C-clamps to hold the basket together and remove/install the screws without any spring pressure against them.

This works way better for me.
Dale

[Rusty]

Hello, thank you everyone. Got my clutch working again. My bike is still running a bit sluggish, but I guess thats another thread!

Observations of what happened: bcchappy, you were correct I measured the old pinion bushing and it was about an 1/8 short. Looks like what happened is the p.o. did not put the outside thrust washer back and it wore a groove into the hub and ground down the pinion bushing! Well I know a lot more about my bikes clutch now, thanks to everyone. I kinda slams into first once on awhile, but besides that feels great.
Next is to tackle this sluggishness, pretty sluggy out of first and third when I get to 3/4 throttle. The bike kinda wants to catch up to where the throttle is. Not much response, I have to downshift and wind it out the shift again. Anyway thanks!!! great to be back on the road

[Pep]

Nice work!
If it feels rich in that spot, might try just raising the needle clip a notch (drop the needle) and see if it improves. Or drop the main one step leaner and see. Might clean things up for you.
-Laurie