Super rat differance between super rat 93A and 93B?

[taber hodaka]

what is the difference between the 93A super rat and the 93B rat?? ------ Clarence

[dirty_rat]

The main differences that I am aware of are as follows:

The 93A had 63T x 17T primary gears
The 93B had 59T x 21T primary gears (different primary drive ratios)

Because of this, the 93A came with 15T front sprocket and 50T rear sprocket.
The 93B came with 14T front sprocket and 62T rear sprocket.

The 93A had an open expansion chamber.
The 93B came with the flame thrower style silencer/spark arrester on the expansion chamber.

There are probably other differences, but I think those are the major ones.

[Bullfrog]

Did the 93A have the butter fork tubes???
Ed

[viclioce]

What are “butter fork tubes?” Are those the fork tubes with the Allen Head screws in the bottom holding the dampener rods in place? If that’s the description then yes they have the “butter fork tubes.” Victor

[matt glascock]

Victor, Butter forks are the invention of automatic spelling correction software. "Betor" made aftermarket, competition forks and shocks. They are awesome and impossible to find unless you print your own money.

[taber hodaka]

Butter fork tubes are the ones that Betty Botter bought when she was racing in West Virginia back in march of 71. Not to be confused with Betor forks that were quality. I think Butterforks were on the first 93 rats, they bent a little more each time you went over a jump. I never knew of any bending on the 100B's. Butter forks were about the only real flaw on a hodaka but they stood behind the product and sent us good replacement ones. Matt butter forks were real. ------- Clarence

[Bullfrog]

What Clarence said. (regarding butter forks)
Ed

[matt glascock]

Wow, Apologies Victor. I figured wrong. My new fancy phone interprets some of my typing in an "unusual" way. I figured "Betor" became "butter". I'll shut up now.

[taber hodaka]

We called them olie "O" because they were marginal. Just kidding. ----- Clarence

[viclioce]

Well, Clarence, Matt & others, thanks for the spell check update!

My 93B had a bent left fork only. It wasn’t apparent until I took the wheels off to mount the new tires! Played Holy Heck trying to get the axle back into the left tube. And even when I got the axle bolted in place, from that point on. The left fork wouldn’t operate correctly.

I was fortunate when I talked to Terry, asking if he had a functional used upper tube for a 93B. He told me he had broken up a set, selling someone else a single upper tube and had found the other loose tube to the set. He sold it to me for little more than he would have probably sold a used tube.

I had not heard of the Betor forks, nor had I heard of the term butter forks before this post. So I was quite confused by the mention of “Butter Forks!” Thanks for the good laugh! Victor

[matt glascock]

I guess "butter" forks was a play on words on "betor". Cool to know.

PS- good one, Clarence.

[Bullfrog]

As nifty as it might be to envision a satirical connection between the "butter forks" and Betor forks . . . no such thought was applied back in the 1970's. There was an intentional comparison of the "softness" of genuine, for real, butter . . . and that batch of forks on the early toaster tank Super Rats.
Ed

[Stever]

I don't think those fork tubes were exclusive to Super Rats. My first Hodaka was an early B model, and it had the butter forks. I bought it used, so can't swear those tubes were on it new, but I have no reason to think otherwise. My neighbor across the street, whose son raced Hodakas, had a shop press in his basement, so we never bothered to get the stronger tubes. Mr. James straightened them for us while we watched, and told us to rotate them in the triple clamps so they didn't bend in the same place and fatigue faster. He a patient mentor to several of us impatient (and ignorant!) young folks, and introduced me to the shop press, metal lathe, welding and meticulous mechanical work in general. I was fortunate, to say the least.

-Stever

[taber hodaka]

Butter forks were weaker than ace 90 forks. you could not ride hard they bent while easy riding. As I remember the only forks that bent so easily were the early super rats, PABTCO supplied us with all new fork tubes, ----------- Clarence

[matt glascock]

Cool discussion. Thanks for the butter fork lesson guys.

[Stever]

Yes, cool discussion. And I want to "edit" my previous post, deferring to Clarence's knowledge. I don't know if what I had on my B model were true "butter" forks, just that they bent easily doing local MX. And they could have been swapped out well before I got the bike.

-Stever

[matt glascock]

Are there any distinguishing features on the tubes. I have a few random spares.

[MTrat]

The 'baby Ceriani' forks I had proved to be 'butter forks'.

[dirty_rat]

The forks that are being referred to as "butter" forks were the first sets of 30mm forks. They were used on the early Super Rats and the Ace 100 B models. They are the forks that had the built in damper rods (non-removable, no allen bolt in the bottom of the fork legs). As noted, when ridden hard, the forks would bend. Hodaka would replace the tubes if you took the bike back to a Hodaka dealer (my brother had an Ace 100 B this occurred to and our local dealer replaced the tubes with new, stronger units - never had a problem again). These are also the forks that were known to make the kerplunk noise whenever they topped out. They were non-adjustable in the triple trees and they had the large top nut that captured them into the triple clamps. Many of the ones that are still out there in use have probably had the replacement fork tubes installed, or they have never been ridden hard. So, if they bend, they probably have the original tubes and if they don't, they probably have the replacement tubes. The tubes from the newer forks (with removable damper rods) will NOT fit the older forks.

The later Super Rats and the Ace 100 B+ came with newer 30mm forks (with removable damper rods - allen bolts in the bottom tubes that held the damper rods in). There newer forks were also adjustable in the triple clamps so they could be slid up and down to adjust fork rake and trail.

[matt glascock]

Great info. Thank you.

[dirty_rat]

Matt,

As far as differences between the two different fork tubes, the early (non-removable damper rad) fork tubes were approx. 1" shorter than the later fork tubes (and later yet fork tubes such as the model 97, 98, 99 etc. were possible even longer, I don't have any taken apart right now so I can't measure). Also the early tubes had a larger hole in the bottom of the tubes where the welded in place damper rod would stick through. On the later forks the damper rod was inserted into the tubes from the top and only the shafts would come out the bottom.

[taber hodaka]

There was no way to tell the difference in the good forks or the butter forks. But when you sold five new superats and four days later they were bent into a curve, something was wrong. probably a few were straitened at the machine shop but nothing worked, Something was wrong and phones were ringing in Athena from across the land. The word was out in every town, It was a big deal for the dealer. It could have been only a batch of 250 I don't know but the problem was corrected pronto. ------------ Clarence