I’m trying to start this freshly bored Super Rat. When I kick it, it feels very tight and only gives me 2 revolutions. Just a pop pop, and stop.
I felt no binding when I was assembling the crank & tranny. Everything fit well and moved smoothly.
Any ideas what the problem could be? Or is it just really tight from the fresh bore, done by Hodaka Dave? My last bore job from Dave wax my Green Toad and it fired up on the second kick, very smoothly. This just feels really tight when kicking it over..... Bictor
I would expect if its a Hodaka Dave top end, it is perfect. That's based on the fact that he's 12 for 12 for me including the best top end I've had ever. It sounds like something is putting a drag on the system. He made my epic SR top end a wee bit snug, but he knew I was going to race it. It didn't bind as you describe. You might consider working backward - out to in. Pull the clutch cover and clutch and kick it. No change, do the same on the mag. I can also tell you what Hodaka Dave would tell you to do first - Pull the top end and confirm gap and fit. Inspect the piston to confirm no grit/crud got in between the cylinder and piston. Lube the piston and confirm it travels the whole stroke with absolutely no hang-ups, and, while controlling the rod with your right hand, rags, or whatnot so it doesn't rattle around, kick it over with your left to confirm the binding issue is elsewhere in the engine.
Matt. I’m fairly sure it’s tranny related. I can easily turn the flywheel by hand when it’s in neutral. Bottom end rebuilt. All new bearings & seals. Only left the copper bushing in the left case. It was in good shape. Wondering if it’s something with the cases? Something binding?
Not something I’ve experienced before. And Kelly is coming for bike on 28th. So I need to start it & jet it properly. So it leaves in a week. Victor
Did you bolt the cases together and check for a little side play on each shaft, before you sealed the cases? should be very easy to find. -------- Clarence
I’ve bolted the cases together twice. Turned each shaft with them all standing in the right case half. Everything felt like it moved smoothly. Hoping I don’t have to split it again. But it’s not spinning with any flywheel momentum is what it feels like. Victor
You might be right Victor. Consider removing the plug, lift the rear off the deck, slip the transmission in a low gear and see if you can move the engine by turning the rear tire. See now well the tire turns in neutral while you're at it. It might be the clutch dragging in the engine down if it doesn't fully disengage or is otherwise incorrect. It would be helpful to know if there are any funky sounds from the motor when you kick it over - scraping or other signs of abnormal friction.
Tomorrow I’m going to pull the spark plug & kick it. See if there’s any difference.
Bike seems to roll OK in neutral. I’m going to try rolling in gear with the clutch lever engaged. If neither of those show anything, I’ll drop the shifter cover & see if it kicks over better. If not that, then I’ll drain the oil, pull the clutch cover and remove the clutch basket to see if it kicks easier.
I really want to start it so I can properly jet it. Victor
I think you said this but I, without the clutch or flywheel on, put the cases together, torque all the screws and then test for free turning and a little side play. That way you know everything is not bound up, also turn the kick start and make sure nothing is bound up there. Taking one motor apart and putting the same engine back together with its original parts can be much easier. I use the wooden block with the screws up, when everything is moving freely, including the crankshaft, I remove the screws pull the left engine case up and off then I put my sealant on and put it back together, This lets me know everything is free moving inside. This process has saved my bacon many times. -------------- Clarence
I use the same technique Clarence. Seems like the only way to go.
I think I may have forgotten to test before putting the sealant on this time. It was already together, but I put too little sealant on it and it was leaking horribly. It lost all but about 4 oz. of oil in 2 days after filling the oil.
It also felt hard to turn but I thought it was just that there was no oil in it yet to lube things.
So today I do a close inspection. Hoping it’s something for which I don’t have to drain the oil & pull the motor again.
Buyer is supposed to com for it on the 28th. I already told him about the problem and I would let him know if I figure it out before he leaves Lake Havasu on his way back to ND.
If it isn’t resolved in the next few days he can go back to ND & we can meet later to deliver the bike. Hoping I can figure this out in a day or 2 and can get on to jetting. Victor
If you follow the concept of "assembly lube" - oiling or greasing all parts as appropriate while assembling - then things are lubed when the assembly is complete.
Ed
PS: In this situation, it sounds like something prevented the case halves from coming together -- leading to the rapid oil loss from the transmission, and the binding. Disassembly seems the only appropriate action at this point.
Ed. The case halves came together, I just used too little case sealer. When I pulled it apart and cleaned the cases I put enough sealer & it stopped leaking. Hasn’t lost any oil now in 2 days.
I had other business to take care of today. So I’ll be back at it tomorrow. Victor
As Ed said above
I would hope everyone uses assembly lube, I use the best 2 cycle oil I can find. Some on all bearings all moving parts of the crank shaft, piston & rings, seals and o rings, All moving parts, I do this on any engine I build, lawn mower, car ect.. Victor does the engine turn over now? does it run, let us know. -------------- Clarence
You should check that the shafts turn at several steps of assembly. Before the cases go together, after they are together, any time you put something on a shaft make sure it still spins free. You put the clutch on, spin it, you put the flywheel on, spin it. That way at least you know what may be wrong at any point and correct it right away.
That’s what I usually do Dan. I didn’t notice anything as I assembled, which is why it caught me off guard. If I have to split the cases and reassemble again, I will. Was just hoping it was something simple I missed. Danny Cooke also told me a few things to check. I’m headed out to garage now to run thru those checks. More to come.... Victor
Well I found the problem. The flywheel was damaged in the center. It looks like the key rusted in a bad position. It damaged the key slot on the fly wheel cracking & deforming it.
With the key slot on the flywheel being deformed, it caused the flywheel to grab the condenser. So everything under the flywheel was binding the flywheel.
I have an extra flywheel to substitute. But I have sprayed the key with some CRC Knock’er Loose, in hopes of freeing up the key so I can replace it. If I can’t free the key, then I will pull the piston off and substitute a different crank.
And, I’m moving the condenser up under the tank rather than deal with non-OEM condenser fitting (or not) on the stator. So. Once I finish this issue with the key, I’ll be able to put the motor back in the bike. Bictor
That flywheel is very common, generally the result of over tighting the flywheel or not having the flywheel aligned with the crankshaft key. Check every flywheel for the crack on the lobe. -------- Clarence
Take a small punch, smaller across then the key, and tap the key out. Work from the outer end, it should roll right up out of the slot. No need to gut the motor again.
Hey Victor, I'm not sure if you performed the solder job on the stator but if you did, here's a good tip I learned to prevent burning the crap out of the vinyl insulation. You don't need to strip/tin any more than 3-4mm insulation. If you are soldering multiple wires to the contact, tin them together first. Next, lay down a small pool of solder on the contact. Now bring the tinned wire(s) into the field, head your bead, and bring the wire into the pool. You'll notice that the pool will "frost" over briefly but the pool will quickly heat back up and melt into the tinned wires. Pull the iron away and give the joint a quick blow and presto- perfect connection. Total iron contact time is a second or less and you can run the insulation right up to the solder joint without melting it. Shorting that blue wire will soon have you searching for spark. Clean and neat.
looks like someone missed the alignment of the flywheel and the key on the crankshaft about by a nicklesworth. I like it when a flywheel key is tight and stays in place tough to align a loose key at my old age. This must be a before picture of the arrangement before you started to rebuild the engine? what a crusty, rusty, grummie set up you had to work on must have taken a hour to clean it up. What did it look like before you started to assemble. Looks like the flywheel keyway was past the key on the crankshaft. I don't think you could have turned the flywheel over by hand because the flywheel would have been out of round and hit the condenser. Was the condenser higher than a stock hodaka condenser? Well Victor you still have four days until the 28th. You will make it. -------------- Clarence
Good news! One tap with a punch and the key moved this morning! Grabbed it with a pair of pliers & out it came. Replacement flywheel is on! Reassembly shall commence!
Thankful it came out & I didn’t have to pull the crank! Had a brand new spare key in my tackle box! Onward we go! Victor
Bike is all back together again! But it’s dark now. I’ll continue trying to start it tomorrow. Kicks over much easier now. Just feels like a fresh bore! Victor
Bictor