stuck in gear

[jake]

Hi,
I'm trying to resurrect a barn find 99 Road Toad and have it roughly "gone over" but I can't get it to shift. Seems like it's stuck in a high gear.

The shifter does move and you can feel what seem to be correct detents, but moving the bike back and forth always feels the same, never more or less difficult like you'd expect when changing gears. Obviously can't get to neutral either.

And the bike's supposed to be primary kick, according to the sales brochure, yet pulling the clutch doesn't disconnect the kicker mechanism OR the stuck transmission.

Any clue as to what I'm facing here? What to try?

Was thinking to start by filling gearbox with ATF since it seems like a nice thin, lubricative solvent. Hypothesis: Maybe the existing transmission oil (clean looking on the dipstick but quite low) has gummed things up and needs a nice flush to get things moving again. Perhaps pop starting with that in there and letting it run with rear wheel raised will be enough to heat cycle it, slosh ATF around a bit and shake things loose.

thx
jake


[attachment=0]A9BC5AB8-3BD7-4568-BEE8-AD3A4EF1CB00.jpeg[/attachment]

[jake]

Update!

Towed it to pop start, which worked! It actually runs and sounds super freaking cool!

So that's exciting!

Anyway, upon starting, the clutch issue went away, so that aspect of my original problem set was just the typical "stuck clutch plates" and is now resolved. Clutch stick could be assumed evidence that there was at least some moisture in the system, which is no big surprise, I guess. Or could've been age and material degradation, I guess.


The shifting problem changed some: I'm now able to get two distinct different gears, and some sort of neutral, albeit not where it's supposed to be - according to the lever, I now have neutral in the shift positions of first and second and maybe also fourth.

Does that sound at all familiar?

Sadly I'm afraid the thing's going to have to come apart majorly - there's ATF spewing out all over the place from the neighborhood of the shift lever.

If this sounds like a known failure mode with known repairs, please let me know; otherwise I'll try to start exploratory surgery on it this week.

thanks!
Jake

[matt glascock]

Not so much a failure but an anticipated event on a bike that sat for lord knows how many years and is now running. You have a failed left crank seal at the very least. The good news - you can change the left crank seal without splitting the cases. Now the bad - if you take that approach, the motor will go KA-BLOOEY. You need to pop the hood and change all seals (and bearing too while you're at it). More good news, HPI sells a kit with everything needed for complete low-end overhaul. All parts are labeled and individually packaged in a strip of individual pouches with an accompanying set of plastic-wrapped schematics. And all for a great price. Amazing.

[jake]

Well yeah, Matt, I'm sure you're right that the crank seals are shot. So thank you for that, although it now kickstarts super easily on the first kick and seems nice and peppy. So while I agree that I will do the seal, I kinda wonder if it's somehow actually still intact!

Just brought it in for the night and fired it up once more (cold)- It's so awesome - seventies motocross sounds and smells again, can barely contain myself - huge smiles!


Anyway, once I know that it's fixable, I'm 100% into protecting the thing with seals and a bottom end kit, etc.

But crank seals aren't related to my missing gear situation and I don't want to start a rebuild if this 'missing gears' thing is a known problem that can't be fixed.

I've bought quite a pile of stuff already from Terry for the other bike (93A) I recently scored, so I'm (over)eager to buy needed parts, but need kind of a guiding light from those who have experienced all this before and know the current state of play..

Big Fear: Is the stuff to fix missing gears still available (i.e. hope this is not an Elsinore-like situation, as in This is what killed all the Toads and there aren't any more spares)?

Bottom line: If this gear misbehaviour is a common known failure, can anyone explain (or hazard an educated guess) what's actually going on in there and if there's a good, affordable fix?

thx
jake


P.S. before you give me my deserved scolding for that pic: yes, I've read up and now know that that Maxxis on the rear is too big and will be getting a proper Kenda & save the Maxxis for the large British motocrossers..

[viclioce]

Couple of things. It could be the counter shaft needs a rebuild. There are springs & a ball inside which wear out.

Another possibility is, the shifter guide arm (#26 below) may be out of adjustment. You can loosen the screw which holds it in place and adjust it so that it shifts better. I usually adjust mine so that the face of #29 lines up with the edge of the outset case, with the inspection window off. That’s where first gear is. Too far in and it won’t move enough to find the next gear. Too far out and it could hit the inspection window cover and that’s too far out for 1st gear. Victor

[matt glascock]

Groovie. Since you will break the cases apart anyway, you can inspect the gears and go from there. Parts are available if necessary, but I doubt there is a broken gear - you'd know it. The gearing issue is more likely a sacked out or maladjusted shift control rod and associated parts or possibly a worn shift rod bore in the shift case. No deal breaker in any case. I know the fun you describe. I said g-bye to Hodaka in about 1981 and rediscovered the fun times of my youth in 2012 so I dig everything you say. You, my friend, are now officially addicted

[Bullfrog]

As you have already discovered, your clutch issue is largely separable from the shifting issue.

Following is a sort of view from orbit of the shifting situation. The shifter case contains components which convert the limited rotary motion shift lever into - 1) indexed 2) linear motion. (Y'all are gonna need to study a bit about Hodaka shifters. The seem complicated, but once you work it out in your mind how things move and why -- they are pretty straight forward.)

Ennnnneywayeeeee, that "indexed, linear motion" of the control shaft is what does the shifting. You may well have several issues to address. I'd recommend starting with checking the condition of the shifter assembly in the shift case. I suspect the foot change shaft (the shaft the shift lever is mounted on) is sloppy in it's bore. If so, there is a fix for that. Adjustment of the shifter mechanism is probably also an issue - but adjustment won't fix things if the mechanism is worn out. Finally, if the machine was operated a considerable amount with a worn out shifter mechanism OR mal-adjusted mechanism . . . there are some components inside the transmission which probably need replacement. (Ball receiver and springs - there are kits for that.) Ball receiver ans springs CAN be replaced with the engine in the frame -- but you really should "go in" to replace bearings and seals. (Ya just can't trust rubber seals which may be 40 years old to provide an air-tight or oil-tight seal.)

As mentioned, get the Workshop Manual . . . and have fun!

Ed