The Toad Runs!

[toadroad88]

After about 2 months of tinkering (don't laugh) I've got my dad's old road toad running well and starting on the first kick. I want to make sure I'm not going to ruin this thing shortly after I get it started. At this point, everything on the engine from the carb to the exhaust is factory original. I did delete the oil pump but that's it. I read some about how you should change the crank seals and how you must split the case to change out the seals. I'll be honest...the carb made me nervous (don't laugh). Splitting the crank terrifies me.

The left crank seal seems like the more critical of the two? It seems like from what I've noticed with the covers off and looking at the manual that this might be able to be changed without splitting the case. Am I missing something? If no, is there a walk through on this process? I haven't officially joined the club to get access to the resonator stuff so maybe that's the answer.

Second, my compression is only ~110-115 psi. I pulled the cylinder off and nothing looked damaged but I'm not sure I'd know damage if I saw it (laughing yet?).

Third, I've got something whacky with the clutch. In neutral it does fine but when I pull the clutch it will sometimes slip into gear without touching the gear selector and then stall. There is no second gear whatsoever. I've been blessed with a second, easier to find neutral . I'm going to try and buy some parts from Terry and re-build this. Sounds like a fun project.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this. The bike is sentimental to me because it's my dads and now I've spent a lot of time on it. I really want to cruise around the yard with the kiddos, but if someone is reading this with 400 red flags going off thinking I'm going to ruin this thing please let me know! I'm not sure how critical it is to address the compression and crank seals before you go tooling around the back yard.

Thanks for reading my wall of text!

[taber hodaka]

I don't see 400 red flags I see 400 positive balloon's. This opinion might only be my own. You can build a dependable, affordable rider without a total rebuild. Was it stored in a cool area or was it store in a area exposed to allot of heat that will destroy seals. I would check the end gap on the rings and the thickness of the feeler gauge that will just slip in beside the piston and cylinder wall. Make sure the rings are not stuck and oil them up. I would check the transmission with the shift cover removed and the rear off the ground, rock the wheel back and forth moving the shift control shaft in and out you should feel the gears lock in at about equal spacing. All for now others that can explain much better will chime in. --------------- Clarence

[Dale]

I am with Clarence. Your shifting issue is most likely either the shift cover needs adjustment or it is worn and needs attention. By testing the transmission with the cover removed (as Clarence described) you can tell if the internal shifter springs might need replacement. They can be replaced without spitting the cases.

As for the seals, yes the left crank seal is the critical one. Failure of this seal will result in piston seizure. It can be replaced by just removing the magneto and stator plate. Install with the outer edge dry and the inner lips greased. When installed, do NOT drive it in flush with the case. It needs to protrude slightly to avoid blocking a lubrication hole for the left crank bearing. There are bulletins and posts describing this.

On your compression; did you find a single ring or double ring piston when you had the cylinder off? If it is single ring, then your compression is fine in my opinion. A little weak for a double ring piston. It would not be difficult to do the measurements that Clarence described to determine if the rings are in need of replacement and if the piston clearance is within specs. As long as the piston slap is not excessive, I would run it (but not until I did a leak down test). Air leaks are killers of 2-stroke motors. Testing kits can be made easily from common parts from your local hardware store. There are posts here with examples and also many on YouTube.
Dale

[givergas]

i will just add that i know you spent more money on worse things.... join the club you wont regret it. it will pay for it self over and over and when you finish putting your fathers bike together you will have a great sense of accomplishment and you will be pretty darn sure its done right ....albert

[toadroad88]

Thanks all! I'll do some more digging and tinkering and report back when I can. Leak down test looks easy enough so I'll throw that together the next time I have time as well. It's been a fun project so far and came at a great time with Covid.

Albert - you are not wrong. I've spent more money on much worse things.

[jake]

Hey @toadroad88,

Careful with that oil injection delete idea. I just bought my first Hodaka(s) a few days ago and am in the process of checking them out. The Road Toad model 99 I got had its oil injector disabled (hose cut and left dangling) and the engine is seized hard. I have a suspicion that the injector does more than just squirt stuff into the intake -- that it's responsible for also pushing oil into the crank / bottom end area, inside where you can't see it at a glance. Converting to premix required opening the engine and making provisions for bottom end lube. So if you've just deleted your oil injector by blocking it off and are thinking that premix is going to oil your bottom end bearings, I suspect it ain't (no passage for induction lubricants to make their way down there on an oil injected case) and you have a major meltdown looming in your future.

Disclaimer: I am BRAND SPANKING NEW to Hodaka and this is second hand apocryphal info, so I could be entirely wrong but wanted to err on the side of caution and hope to save you a terrible time. Please let me know if I'm off base or wrong.

thx
jake

[viclioce]

Jake. I’ve been running my Model 99 RT without injection since rebuilding the motor. It is not at all necessary to use the oil injector.

Oil injection was added to keep up with it in the market, so as to be able to stop & fill up with just unmixed gasoline for convenience!

Hodaka-Parts even sells a removal kit to block off the case where the pump gets lubricated. If it were necessary I’m sure this kit wouldn’t be available.

No worries just running straight pre-mix. My understAnding is only the Model 03 Wombat needs a modification of drilling to allow for premix lubrication without seizure. Victor

[olddogs]

Just a reminder to anyone new to the Hodaka world that when you disable the pump you must replace the banjo bolt that held the oil line to the manifold with a short 6mm bolt. Make sure to put some sealant on the treads. This is a straight shot air leak that will lead to a piston seizure if not plugged.

[jake]

So this leads me to believe that my Toad's previous owner killed the bike by letting the oil pump dry out and blow air straight into the intake. Sad and tragic. I'm envisioning eager kid doing "tune up" of the bike, getting rid of injection improperly, going out for first ride and boom. He had even installed a fresh Metzeler on the rear, still has its little manufacturing tits.

Anyway, sorry for the inaccurate guess above - just trying to avoid catastrophe.

Gonna make a new thread to avoid further hijacking this one.

Jake

[JPark]

Suzukis had 'Posi Force' injection systems that, in addition to feeding the manifold, injected oil into the timing side main bearing which then spun off into a collector to feed oil into the rod bearing. Disconnecting these was catastrophic, and you had to do serious modification to convert them to premix. Some other brand did the same, but the tell tale is having a second injection line going into the crankcase.

It's hard to fault the Suzuki system for engine bottom end longevity, but all these systems lacked a kill switch on a float near the tank bottom. At least that way you'd be walking a functional bike home instead of a seized mess. Probably some liability lawyer decided that having your engine seize was less likely to cause a lawsuit than having a switch cut the motor out at some unexpected time. Plus you'd have to leakproof the wire.