125 Wombat motors....

[viclioce]

Alan picked up the Sprite Challenger today (see pic below). I was wondering if there was a 125 motor comparable to the E Series 100 motors which were sold in batches for bikes like these, or, were there just gaps in the Wombat 125 motor numbers attributed to 3rd party frame makers? Just curious... Victor

[gregg_floren]

I have a Challenger with the original engine. The SN starts with "F".

Gregg

[viclioce]

A Wombat engine which starts with F? Hmmm....Thanks! Victor

[viclioce]

Greg. Are you aware of a resource to obtain fork seals which will fit the Sprite Challenger? Also, what kind of fenders were stock for these bikes? Thx! Victor

[taber hodaka]

see some great pictures. search internet sprite challenger motorcycle. See the post " you don't see these very often" dated july 8 2015. -------------- Clarence

[socalhodaka]

Alan picked up the Sprite Challenger today (see pic below). I was wondering if there was a 125 motor comparable to the E Series 100 motors which were sold in batches for bikes like these, or, were there just gaps in the Wombat 125 motor numbers attributed to 3rd party frame makers? Just curious... Victor

[viclioce]

Well this is a Wombat 125 motor in a Sprite Challenger. The motor number starts with FH, FH16388, it appears (See pic). Maybe it’s just not a clear stamp image?

The Sprite Challengers were never offered for retail sales. They were ordered by a Canadian gas & oil company for their employees to use out in the field. They were ordered in lots of 75, and it’s believed no more than 2 lots were ordered.

Some folks believe there were less than 150 assembled and purchased buy the oil company. The Canadian Hodaka dealer just 30 minutes from Alan was shipped the frames from Sprite and they installed the motors.

Alan is going to take a trip up to where the dealership was and see if he can find anyone left up there with parts of any kind. We have the dealer’s sons names! Fingers crossed. Victor

[taber hodaka]

Data that I find on the chat, Terry Faust of Gemini Distributing imported the frames from England. The name was then changed to Tonka Motorcycle Sales LTD Roys Bellville Ontario Canada ?? In Canada they were named the Sprite Advenger, In the US the name was sprite Challenger. 1&1/2 gallon tank, 11 inches of ground clearance, 51 inch wheelbase, and 150 pounds, conical lightweight hubs. My spelling?? Gemini Industries LTD Vancover.-----Clarence

[Bullfrog]

I don't believe the story about ALL of the "Challengers" going to an oil company is correct. Gemini/Tonka advertised the Sprite framed bikes to the dirt bike world and the shower up at Canadian Trials events. ??Perhaps all of the units sold by a particular Canadian Hodaka Dealer went to an oil company??
Ed

[Bullfrog]

Dang auto correct! "they showed up"

[viclioce]

Thanks Clarence & Captain for the input. I was only going by what I was able to find/read so far. Still curious about frame numbers on this bike. Alan isn’t finding any.

The bike isn’t in bad shape. Biggest issue would be finding OEM fenders for it and a correct trials pipe for it. Still trying to decide if it’s something I want to buy from him & have him bring it down.... Victor

[Bullfrog]

Vic, I'm curious. Where did you find the story about ALL the Challengers going directly to an oil company with none being sold at retail? I had never heard that story before.

Ed

[socalhodaka]

Well this is a Wombat 125 motor in a Sprite Challenger. The motor number starts with FH, FH16388, it appears (See pic). Maybe it’s just not a clear stamp image?

The Sprite Challengers were never offered for retail sales. They were ordered by a Canadian gas & oil company for their employees to use out in the field. They were ordered in lots of 75, and it’s believed no more than 2 lots were ordered.

Some folks believe there were less than 150 assembled and purchased buy the oil company. The Canadian Hodaka dealer just 30 minutes from Alan was shipped the frames from Sprite and they installed the motors.

Alan is going to take a trip up to where the dealership was and see if he can find anyone left up there with parts of any kind. We have the dealer’s sons names! Fingers crossed. Victor

I would guess a bad stamp on the E. Since the only one to have a H on it is the EH.

[taber hodaka]

Victor if you don't buy it I would be interested. I have a model 93 super rat to sell or trade. ---- Clarence

[viclioce]

Ed. The tale is found on the TrialsCentral.com site. I searched for “Sprite Challenger motorcycles” & it came up! Victor

[Bullfrog]

Hmmmm, I just finished some "must do" stuff - so now I can get back to this topic. I'll go check out the site (and mayhaps contact the site administrator for more information).

Ed

[Bullfrog]

So I went to the Trials Central web site Forums - a wonderful site if you are a trials person (and a site where I was already a member - but not a frequent visitor of late).

Ennnneywayeeee, there is a thread in the Classic Trials forum section about Dalesman trials bikes which morphed all over the place - Dalesman, Hodaka Challenger/Sprite/Avenger, Hodaka Bullfrogs, the award winning Hodaka 250 Custom trials bike built by Danny Messmore, Mike Lake's impressive Road Toad trials machine, etc. Upon reviewing the complete thread a couple of times, I think I have figured out HOW the totally mistaken story came to exist of Hodaka Challenger/Sprite's all going to an oil company (with none offered at retail). What follows is in the order found in the thread.

1. Someone posts that six Bullfrogs were made at the Hodaka Factory - but none were for sale to the public (this in a thread about Dalesmans ). This is mix of fiction and fact. The six Bullfrogs were put together by employees of PABATCO in Athena, OR (not the factory, not a company project). I was employed there at the time and one of the Bullfrogs was mine - Woo Woo! It is true that none were offered for sale to the public - not surprising since all six were personal "builds".
2. Later in the thread someone correctly posts about Terry Faust/Gemini (the Canadian importer of Hodaka Motorcycles) purchasing Sprite frame kits and assembling Wombat engines in them to create the Hodaka Challenger/Sprite and offering them for sale. The post even contains a photo of a Cycle Canada article with a photo of the Challenger. Further, the post tells a story about a request from an oil company being the genesis of the Challenger project. NOTE: There was NO suggestion that the oil company bought all of the bikes. NOTE2: I haven't heard of any connection between the Hodaka engine, the Sprite frame, Faust/Gemini and an oil company . . . EXCEPT from the this single source . . . needs verification.
3. Further down the thread someone comments, " . . . pity they weren't offered for sale . . ." It APPEARS, that someone then jumped to the conclusion that this comment related to the Challenger/Sprite machines. However, it is much more reasonable to conclude that the reference was to the six Bullfrogs (which indeed, were not offered for sale).

So those are the facts as they appear to me by being there and living it - and by analyzing a very interesting but widely (wildly?) wandering discussion thread.

Ed

[matt glascock]

Thank you for delving in to the trials site and putting that piece of history together, Captain. Interesting. Do you know the whereabouts of the six Bullfrogs?

[Bullfrog]

The grand-daddy Bullfrog which was built by Curt Alexander and Leon Wilbanks used a single down tube Saracen frame. It had a 175cc top end on a 125cc bottom end with special flywheel weighting on both the clutch and magneto sides - and a special trials ratio transmission obtained from the Hodaka factory in Japan. Also a mechanical disc brake from a snowmobile on the front - which didn't work all that well unfortunately. After that, the hatchling Bullfrog frames were created for their individual owners to build up into complete motorcycles on their own.

1. Curt Alexander finished his right away. He used a Montesa Cota 123 seat/tank unit to result in a striking looking machine. Somehow I never saw the machine or a photo of it from back in the day. Curt's machine is now owned by Eric Smith, who is a Hodaka Days regular.
2. My own Bullfrog was completed fairly quickly and was campaigned in trials competition of the day. I still have the machine.
3. Chuck Swanson's Bullfrog frame waited in line for building up for a while. He finished it a few years ago. I'm not sure whether he still has it (may have sold it to a 110% Hodaka fan).
4. Legend has it that Harry Taylor got one of the frames to build into a flat tracker. Trials bikes and flat trackers shared the same sort of front end geometry for precise, neutral steering. Whereabouts of this machine has been a mystery since 1978. Possibly sold at the auctioning off of bikes at the end of PABATCO? Possibly went to the scrap pile when Harry developed his next iteration flat tracker?
5. Jim Gentry ended up selling his frame to a friend - who later went through a divorce - and the frame went to the dump in a great flurry of garage clearing.
6. Unknown - I have some thoughts (but I'm not telling . . .) Most likely lost and gone forever.

Ed

[gregg_floren]

Concerning the fenders and fork seals...

I can tell you the forks are Metal Profile and the original fenders were polished aluminum.

Lee Fabry did the restoration work on mine and he was able to find fork seals and fenders a couple of years ago. He may be able to help.

Gregg

[matt glascock]

Thanks for adding the gritty to the nitty, Captain. Very interesting bit of history. There was a bit on the Bullfrog trials bike, I think in the "Specials' chapter in the Hodaka Book, but not in this cool a degree of detail. Maybe for the next addition?