Clutch won’t disengage

[Dozerash]

I have a 1977 Road Toad that’s been sitting for a long time. I recently cleaned the carb, tank and replaced the fuel filter and fuel line. I also replaced the points and condenser. It starts and runs decent but the clutch won’t disengage. I just roll start it and rode it around hoping it would start working. It did the same thing last time I had it running and it freed up eventually. My vintage trials bike does the same thing after sitting and after riding it around it releases. I put about three miles on the Hodaka and it won’t release. I’m draining the transmission oil now. Any advice? Thanks

[Dale]

What specifically are you using for gear lube?
When you ride it, you can frequently pull in the clutch lever and blip the throttle a few times. Sometimes that will work.
The best option is to remove the clutch pack and check it out. Usually a good cleaning is all it needs.

[taber hodaka]

Ah the clutch saver will keep that from happening. The clutch plates are stuck together very common. ---------------- Clarence

[Dozerash]

It had old nasty oil, I’m letting it drain overnight. What is a good oil to put in it? I was riding around with the clutch pulled in, didn’t make difference. Hoping some new good oil will help before I have to take it apart.

[Dale]

We don't want to get an oil debate started but a commonly used oil amongst the Hodaka faithful is BelRay 80W Gear Saver. Available at most motorcycle shops.

[Bullfrog]

I second Dale's recommendation.
Ed

[Dozerash]

We don't want to get an oil debate started but a commonly used oil amongst the Hodaka faithful is BelRay 80W Gear Saver. Available at most motorcycle shops.

Good, I have some already on my shelf!

[Dozerash]

If I do have to take the clutch apart, is it pretty easy? I know Hodakas have a different shifting mechanism than I’m used too. I haven’t worked on a Hodaka since I was 15, about 40 years ago! I’ve had three clutches apart on the Rotax 2 stroke bikes I have recently (maintenance, oil seals in cover, new plates in one, repair clutch actuator to make clutch pull easier). They are pretty easy.

[Al Harpster]

This may be of some help.

As an aside, the Ace Shop Manual mentions flushing the transmission/clutch cavity with kerosene.

Might be worth considering. Could help de gum what's gummed up.

[viclioce]

Al. You might want to post the corresponding descriptions to the part numbers as well, so that he knows that part #X is part “Y” and not just a picture with numbers. Some may know but it’s always better to refer to the part names so that people can also know what to call them when asking about a part. If you don’t know already that #39 is a clutch disc spacer, then just seeing a picture may not be as helpful as seeing the part descriptions along with the image & part numbers. Just a thought... Victor

[Al Harpster]

I copied this diagram from the Hodaka_parts.com website.

Dozerash: if you find this diagram helpful you might like to check the website noted above and click the Search By Schematics button.

[Dale]

If I do have to take the clutch apart, is it pretty easy? I know Hodakas have a different shifting mechanism than I’m used too. I haven’t worked on a Hodaka since I was 15, about 40 years ago! I’ve had three clutches apart on the Rotax 2 stroke bikes I have recently (maintenance, oil seals in cover, new plates in one, repair clutch actuator to make clutch pull easier). They are pretty easy.

Yes, very easy. It sounds like you have some mechanical experience so I think you will be amazed at how simple it is.
To access the clutch, remove the right side cover. Either drain the oil or carefully lay the bike on its left side before removing the cover. No need to remove the clutch cable. There is a small roller bearing that can fall out on the floor. It will stay in place if you put a magnet on the clutch actuating arm before removing the cover. This small roller bearing is the link between the actuating arm and the throw out bearing on the face of the clutch pack.

Once the cover is off you will find the throw out bearing, with spacing shims under it. It is just loose in the center of the clutch. Remove it to expose the clutch nut. CAUTION: The clutch nut is left hand threaded. CLOCKWISE to remove. Typically the easiest way to remove it is to use a battery operated impact drill and just hold the outside of the clutch. The nut will spin right off. Make sure that you remember the left hand threads and upon installation use a torque wrench (250 inch lbs). Also, when installing use a dab of grease to hold both the small roller bearing and the throw out bearing w/shims in place.

[thrownchain]

Clutch nut clockwise to loosen.

[Dale]

Clutch nut clockwise to loosen.

OMG! You know that is what I meant! Thanks for catching my mistake. I have updated my original post...

[swcaudill]

My suggestion is to drain the oil and replace with Mercon ATF. Ride the bike. The ATF has detergent that will loosen the clutch parts. I run ATF in all my Hodaka's. I own a Rickman-Zundapp 125. A famous German rider from Canada (can't remember his name) told be to use ATF in the Zundapp motor it will shift much better. The Zundapp motor has a similar shift mechanim as the Hodaka.
Good Luck
Sterling

[ossa95d]

Speedy Classen is a great legend with strong opinions. He's also very entertaining, but he runs his pre-mix at 100 to 1...

[taber hodaka]

Wow a hundred parts of oil to one part of gas sounds rich. -------------???????????

[ossa95d]

Ha ha ha I guess I should have said 1 to 100. Sorry Clarence!

[Dozerash]

Several trials bikes I’ve had our local shop recommended ATF to use in the transmission. On the vintage Rotax engines I have had a lot of people recommend ATF-typeF, doesn’t have the detergents, was made for vintage Ford vehicles. I was thinking of using ATF on the Hodaka at least to free the clutch. I know a guy that owns a shop that’s used over 100:1 oil ratio with no problems, but he was using it on a low rpm trials bikes.

[Dale]

One thing to keep in mind is that while the gear lube capacity is 20 ounces, you will typically only be able to drain between 14 and 16 ounces from the drain bolt. And that much only if you repeatedly tip the bike from one side to the other. Removing the clutch cover will allow you to get nearly all of the remaining oil out plus you can wipe out any grunge that has formed in the bottom of the clutch cavity. Without doing that, you are always mixing clean oil with dirty and/or another type of oil. It is also very easy to overfill your crankcase if you end up adding more oil than you removed.

I know plenty of folks have successfully run ATF in their Hodakas. I don't think that would be a problem but I don't know if I would want to mix it with the existing oil??? I would sure recommend getting the clutch off and giving it a good cleaning. While off, you can "blueprint" it per instructions in a club Resonator article and it will then work as smooth as butter.

I have been where you are. When I acquired my first Hodaka, after a hiatus from motorcycles for about 30 years, the clutch would not release. I tried all of the tricks to no avail. In reality there are no tricks. Once you see the gum and the grime built up on the friction discs and steel plates you will understand why it is sticking.

[viclioce]

Dale. I have to disagree. I drain mine on the kickstand, leaving it alone to drain. When I put 20 ounces in, I get about 19.5 ounces out. The other 1/2 ounce seems to stay in the clutch cover, and, if I move the drain pan over before removing the clutch cover I can drain a bit more of that into the basin as well. I drained & filled 3 times yesterday and I think I only had to add about 1-1.5 ounces to bring the oil back up to 20 ounces the third time. Patience is the key! Victor

[Dale]

Dale. I have to disagree. I drain mine on the kickstand, leaving it alone to drain. When I put 20 ounces in, I get about 19.5 ounces out. The other 1/2 ounce seems to stay in the clutch cover, and, if I move the drain pan over before removing the clutch cover I can drain a bit more of that into the basin as well. I drained & filled 3 times yesterday and I think I only had to add about 1-1.5 ounces to bring the oil back up to 20 ounces the third time. Patience is the key! Victor

Patience is not a problem here Victor trust me...
If you are getting 19 1/2 ounces out then you have more than 20 ounces in the case to begin with. That is the only way.
That is my story and I will stick with it.
Dale

[taber hodaka]

Victor my simple brain cannot follow your math. 19.5 ounces drained out then you added 1.5 ounces to bring it up to 20 ounces? 19.5 + 1.5 = 21 ounces plus the 1/2 ounce left in the looks like 21.5. If you put in 20 drained out 19.5, put the 19.5 back in and you still have 20? But how do you discuss a measurement of about 19.5 ounces. The question is not about the oil you had to add but does the clutch work? ------------------- Clarence

[matt glascock]

I got this! I got this! There's a crack in the case allowing the oil to seep back into the case from the clutch cover reservoir??

[viclioce]

Clarence. You forgot to consider that I drained it 3 times. I only added 1.5 ounces after the third drain. About .5 ounce each drain x 3 drains = 1.5 ounces. I figure I spilled out about .5 ounce each draining. Not hard math at all.

Dale. I’ve been catching the oil in a Teflon pot and pouring it back into a measuring cup to put it back into the bike. So I’ve been measuring it accurately.

I’m also using a full synthetic gear oil, which has a very thin flow rate when cold, so it comes out easier than traditional gear oil which has a much slower flow rate because it’s inherently thicker! Victor