Ace 90 goes on strike

[matt glascock]

Here's the scoop. Ace 90 in box stock trim. Runs like a top until I shut her down. Then no amount of coaxing will get her to fire again. Here's another kicker - I can't get it to start with the kicker. Bump start only. Kick start mechanism works perfectly. I have detail cleaned the carb, set float height, and confirmed proper needle valve function. Air filter cleaned, set the point gap with timing mark method and replaced in-line fuel filter and properly gapped spark plug. Fresh pure gas with Yamalube 2R at 32:1. Replaced funky spark plug cap. I even swapped in a known good condenser from a stator that retired after I went to PVL ignition on the Super Rat. Good spark confirmed. I know the routine, but this one has me stumped. I'm open to any suggestion. Thanks guys (and any gals out there)!

[Bullfrog]

Pilot circuit passages? (Cleaning the pilot jet is not enough.)
Ed

[thrownchain]

Compression psi?

[matt glascock]

Thanks guys. Captain, I did run some fine copper wire through the pilot circuit passage when I detailed the carburetor, but I will repeat the process. Thrown, compression is from 134 - 136 PSI on a fresh top end with about 20 hours on it. It just occurred to me I didn't check the gas cap vent (duh). Mayhaps I don't know the "routine" as well as I thought I did.

[Bullfrog]

There are TWO pilot circuit passages. One for fuel and another for air. Didja clean 'em both?
Ed

[matt glascock]

Oopsies. Thanks Captain. On it tomorrow. I'll report. Now, I'm going to sit in the naughty chair and suck my thumb.

[matt glascock]

Oh, and Captain, can I have my Dremel back. I think it would be the perfect tool for the job.

[Bullfrog]

An extra 10 minutes in the naughty chair for even THINKING about Dremels and pilot circuit passages at the same time!
Ed

[matt glascock]

Rats! I thought I was on to something there! Innovation, ya know.

[thrownchain]

The reason I asked about the compression is that sometimes when it's low the kickstart won't spin the motor fast enough to get it to run, but bump starting it will . If your timing is spot on it's back to the carb. And like Ed said there are fuel passages and air passages and both must be clean.

[viclioce]

Matt. One of the things Danny tells me is he buys carb cleaner in large containers, big enough to be able to soak carbs in the cleaner after stripping apart. Don’t know if you’ve considered buying in this quantity but it would allow you to soak all the passages clean! Just a thought... Victor

[matt glascock]

Thrown, thanks for the explanation. I always wondered exactly why a bike will bump start but not kick start. I am going to go absolutely crazy on that carburetor through each and every passage. I just reviewed the Captain's treatise on cleaning the Mic in The Resonator Revisited and am going to have the article opened up in front of me during the process to make sure I don't miss any details. Great suggestion Victor. I'm familiar with the dunking method of cleaning. I'm not sure if that will replace chasing each passage mechanically but I know that one of the auto parts stores here sell carb cleaner in (I think) 5 gallon containers so I might pick one up. Couldn't hurt. Thanks guys!

[thrownchain]

NAPA used to sell a 1 gal bucket with a parts carrier in it, put the parts in the carrier and let it sink in the pail. Works fairly well. The chemicals aren't what they used to be. Used to be able to submerge the parts and it would churn like Alka seltzer, now it works but not at that level. Be careful, the chemicals are caustic, wear gloves. And glasses.

[matt glascock]

Thrown, do you know what the solution is comprised of?

[viclioce]

Found a NAPA 1 gal. Carb cleaner, but no basket in it. Victor

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?te ... antic&se=1

[thrownchain]

I do not know the chemicals used. But they are not as "good" as they used to be. I have a couple of baskets that came out of other carb pails, they work well in my regular parts washer to hold small parts for soaking.

[thrownchain]

Each auto parts dealer should be able to get what you need, several brands. Gunk makes one, Berryman is another. Amazon has a good selection. Some are water based now.

[Joe Ormonde]

What ever happened to the good old days when everything had a Cross Bone and Scull logo ! Berryman Parts dip did and would clean a filthy Carb spotless in no time flat. Berrymans Carb Spray worked as a paint stripper. No more. Just too toxic I guess. Sure do miss the old chemicals. Joe.

[givergas]

ive used some of the old gunk parts dip and i swear it said if you live in certain parts of the country you will get cancer it was good stuff...albert

[thrownchain]

It's the same reason they put stickers on coffee cups "warning coffee is hot". People were buying and using chemicals that they were never trained to use, and got bent out of shape when they got chemical burns because they didn't use proper precautions. " you can't fix stoopid".....

[Jim12X]

Since it starts through the clutch, is there any possibility that the clutch is slipping just enough to not allow it to spin quickly enough to start? Might explain why it push-starts but doesn't kick-start.

[taber hodaka]

I don't think so because when the clutch slips badly it slips easily in gear. ------------Clarence

[matt glascock]

I scored the NAPA carb cleaner. It says "harmful or fatal if swallowed" so that's a good start. I have been frustrated over the dumbing down of a lot of the most effective chemicals to protect people from their own ignorance. I like a more Darwinian approach where these things sort themselves out. For a bit more background on the current conundrum, I should have mentioned that on a few occasions, the bike loaded up. This always responded to allowing it to chug along with the fuelcock off and the throttle wide open. A blocked pilot air passage could cause this. What other carburetor feature would cause a bike to load up like this. Leaking needle valve/seat? Thanks guys!

[thrownchain]

What does the plug look like? Nice brown color? Or more black?

[ossa95d]

Something rarely mentioned, I have seen a plugged or crimped carburetor vent line cause erratic intermittent loading up and starving (and frustration). Probably not the problem in this case but always something to consider.