NOS(?) Ace 100/Ace 90 Tank

[DesertRat54]

In connection with my search for a CW core motor, I just had a thought (drum roll, please): I have a really, really nice original Ace 100/Ace 90 gas tank that I probably don't need. It's not a re-chromed tank; it's original brushed chrome. The inside is sparkly clean, and it's never even had badges on it. It has a few very light scratches that I'm sure would buff out, and of course, no dings or dents of any kind. It's so gorgeous, I'm not terribly enthused about selling it, but would, if it got me a good CW motor. I'd let it go for $500, or part of a CW motor deal. Repeat after me, "brushed chrome, not re-chrome...brushed chrome, not re-chrome...brushed chrome, not re-chrome."
Thanks again,
Bill in Virginia

[Bullfrog]

I'm confused. ORIGINAL Ace 90/100 tanks had show chrome which would rival Cadillac bumpers . . . so I'm a bit stumped about the brushed chrome comment.

Ed

[DesertRat54]

Hi Ed,
Well, now I'm confused. Here's what I know: 1) it's original brushed chrome, 2) It's never had badges on it, and 3) It's condition is right up there with my NOS Ace 100 tank that is still in the original cloth sock, in the original cardboard box. I was not aware that the toaster tanks were originally show-chromed. I recall that the tank on my Ace 100 peeled around the mounting tabs back in the day. What am I missing?
Thanks,
Bill in Virginia

[Bullfrog]

I reckon some other knowledgeable folks will have to enter in to this conversation. I have never seen an OEM Hodaka tank with "brushed chrome". The closest I"ve seen to brushed chrome would be the last of the chrome tank Wombats and Dirt Squirts. The quality of the pre-plating preparation had changed since the ACE 90 and 100 days, and you could see grinder marks which had not been fully ground/buffed out prior to plating. But even then, the chrome finish was "show chrome" just like always - not matte finish hard chrome or "brushed chrome".

Ed

[bobwhitman]

Well... maybe so, Ed, but I was definitely under the impression that the early Aces were much smoother,

show-like

than those which followed. My one Ace 90 seems to have a markedly nicer chrome job than any of the other chrome tank bikes I've owned.

Show chrome

vs

brushed

may be a poor way of describing the difference, but there does seem to me to be a difference, and I don't think I'm the only one to be under that impression.

Bob

[bobwhitman]

oops, guess I'm still learning the right way to post messages in Paul's format!

[DesertRat54]

This is all very interesting, and I hope some others would chime in, too. I've had some conversations about this, and I'm getting the impression that (a) finishing quality of the chrome tanks declined over time, (b) quality control issues might have resulted in inconsistent finishing quality all along, or (c) some of both occurred. As I'm one who still has not purchased the book, I don't know if this topic comes up in the narrative. Anyone?
Bill in Virginia

[michael_perrett]

I talked with Harry Taylor some years ago concerning this. Hodaka had Japanese youth prep the tanks for plating and thru the years, their "give a hoot" factor went on vacuum. So the finish went down hill on the Wombats and the CW's and Dirt Squirts. I was told this was one of the reasons for the painted tanks.
Mike Perrett

[taber hodaka]

I sold hodaka's from 1965 to 1975. The quality of the chrome was never a factor for me. Setting for 10 years in the sun under the pear tree, in the rain, wind and snow would take it's toll. I did see a very few tanks that you could peal some chrome off. Good tanks were copper plated under the chrome. Clarence

[DesertRat54]

How can you grow pears in all that snow, Clarence? With such a short growing season, I'd think they'd get only about as big as marbles. I digress.

Mike, I always found the story about the kids prepping the tanks an interesting one, although it's hard for me to picture the "give a hoot factor" falling away, even among Japanese kids. As someone who works with American kids, I suppose I can see this happening. I rather dislike sweeping generalities, but there is a cultural dynamic here, too (without turning this thread into a course in comparative cultures). I've worked for some years with Japanese folks in a manufacturing environment, and I've always had high regard for their work ethic and commitment to quality. Another piece of this story is that apparently there was concern in management about kids working with toxic chemicals. This narrative goes that by '73, these health concerns played a large part in the switch to painted tanks. Of course, painting tanks can be pretty unhealthy, too, as many of us can attest.

Bill in Virginia

[Camman]

Ah but pears do grow where it snows. I live in the Rogue Valley (So. Oregon), once the pear capital and home of Harry and David's, and yes it does snow here at least once or twice every winter. Your welcome Clarence!

[Bullfrog]

Hmmm, I had never heard the story about "kids" doing the prep work on tanks. I wonder if that story from Harry and his penchant for referring to any and all persons as "kid" might have gotten mushed together. I do remember hearing that the tanks were prepped/plated by the same company which handled Toyota car bumpers.

Later on, increasing regulatory requirements regarding the toxic by-products from the plating operation starting winnowing down the number of available plating companies and increasing the cost. In addition, there were problems getting/keeping a place in the production schedule with the large plating companies (remember the Toyota reference) due to the relatively small plating orders Hodaka generated. Reducing the attention to detail in pre-plating prep helped save money while still resulting in a generally acceptable chrome job.

Relating this discussion back to the original question, I am still looking for a reasonable explanation for why Bill (in Virginia) feels like some Hodaka tanks came from the factory with "brushed chrome" -- when my own history/experience is that all plated Hodaka tanks were "show chrome" with the tanks from the 1960's rivaling the best chrome seen anywhere. In fact, I have never seen what I would refer to as a "brushed chrome" plating job on an OEM/NOS Hodaka tank. It is difficult to reconcile that history/experience with the tank Bill has on hand - sure would like to see those photos!

Ed

[DesertRat54]

Here are two pics of the tank. I can't get close enough with any clarity, and the surface is so shiny it reflects everything. The chrome is really nice everywhere but in the tunnel area. It's not rusty, and is as clean as the rest of the tank, but it has no real shine at all. Is this typical? Also, I've looked at some other tanks over the past few days, and have re-inspected my own. It does seem as though some of the earlier tanks have a better finish than do others, in addition to seeing some differences in the "depth" of the finish between the early Ace90/Ace100 tanks and the later Wombat and Combat Wombat tanks. I don't want to belabor this discussion if it's run it's course, but I can post some other pics if anyone is interested. All in all, it's a fine tank with one of the better-quality finishes.

[Bullfrog]

Well, the mystery is solved . . . at least to my satisfaction.

I am convinced that two factors are important here:

1. DesertRat54 Bill is wayeeeee more demanding of the quality of chrome plating before being willing to call it "show chrome" than I am.
2. Semantics/word choices may mean different things to different people. i.e. "brushed chrome" means matte finish to me, but apparently not to Bill. For me, any chrome which shows the reflection of the photographer in a photo qualifies as "show chrome".

Ed

[DesertRat54]

Ed, I think you have a point--and probably two. I've learned a bit from this exchange, and am appreciative of everyone's input, including yours, of course. I do, as a matter of fact, stand guilty of high expectations. Moreover, I have a better understanding now of the nature of "brushed chrome" vs. "show chrome." Having said this, there does (in my mind, at least) appear to be some real differences in the quality of the chrome finishing circa '64-'70 vs. say, 1973. It may be a little tougher to prove "inconsistency" in quality in the earlier years, although I suspect that may exist as well. Naturally, my conclusions are limited to just the tanks I've seen, but I've seen quite a few nicely preserved ones--especially lately in connection with this thread--and the chroming quality can be all over the map. Even a history teacher can see this (grin). My original point about this tank was that for the price I was asking, why not have a nearly flawless tank with the original chrome for roughly the same price one would pay for a re-chromed one? The question is still a good one, I think, and I've learned some things, too. It's all good.

[Exzion]

Do you still have this tank? Also What part of Virgina are you in?

Thanks!

[MTRob]

Funny this came up. Spent alot of hours polishing my wife's 64 Ace 90 and it was easy to get it to shine great. When I went to polish my wombats tanks
both the 94A and the 94 they were alot harder to get them to shine like the 90, The scratches didn't come off as easy as the 90, using the same polish.
I had to use harder polish to get them to shine and took more time. So I think there must have been a different in the chroming after spending all my time on getting them to a great shine. Never really thought about it till this question came up. I have one more tank to clean up from a 92B 1972 Super Rat.
Will let you know if it was as easy as the 90 or takes longer like the 1973 Wombats.
MTRob