friends wombat

[viclioce]

Wow! Congrats on the Win!!! That was one fast redo! BTW, was it running for the show? Victor

[givergas]

thanks victor , no its not running needs bored and pistons ,rings . took it to a mechanical savant that lives in the back woods and he grabbed it and no wonder this thing wont run look at this and this and this ring is broke looks like an egg, any way i may be embellishing bottom line is it still needs help.. but it looks good the win well there was 4 bikes in the class we were in and we had 3 of them and the award 2 per class you do the math . just dont tell my grandson he's excited, it is cool though....albert

[givergas]

as of now this engine needs a top end rebuild and as i have the tools to measure the cylinder i gave it a go, im addicted to tools, ive never done this before and watched a lot of videos to get the gist of how to proceed and would like some help figuring out just what the numbers mean even if its to tell me i need more practice cause none of this makes sense.....albert

[Bullfrog]

measurmentsB.jpg (131.65 KiB) Viewed 3679 times

Have I deciphered the "locations" used to obtain the measurements correctly? If/when that is confirmed, I'll invest some time in reviewing your numbers.
Ed

[thrownchain]

Are there measurements all taken at the same spot? If so you have a 7 /10,000 of an inch variable at XA, 5/ 10,000 at XB. 4/10,000 at YA and 8/ 10,000 at YB. So using ya to xa you have 2 thousands wear., on the xa to xb is 4 thousands. 4 thou difference on top, 5 thou difference on the bottom. I picked a center measurement for reference. I'd say right on the edge needing a bore. Someone check my math.

[givergas]

yes you have it right captain ....albert

[thrownchain]

I'm impressed he's measuring in ten thousands on an inch. Not an easy thing to do, takes a steady touch.

[Bullfrog]

So here is my take on your numbers.
1. You did well! Your repeatability was excellant! No single measurement location varied by even as much as 0.001" - which surely means your attention to detail and a repeatable deft touch gave you good measurements.
2. The yellow "X" indicates measurements which are interesting . . . but not really useful. (Opinions may vary on that.)

3. Your fore-and-aft measurements at the top of the bore and near the bottom of the spigot reveal only 0.002" of taper. The Workshop Manual lists the maximum allowable taper at 0.008". So that seems good.
4. While interesting, there is no published specification for "oval"-ness allowance. Still it is interesting to look at it. Comparing the fore-and-aft measurement at the top with the side-to-side measurement at the top gives you 0.003". Not perfectly round, but that is to be expected . . . and it is pretty good when you already have 0.002" of taper/wear. Wait to see what the "oval"-ness is when things wear-out to the maximum 0.008" taper
5. No information here suggests that a bore job is needed - but more information is needed.
6. We haven't seen piston skirt measurements to establish piston/cylinder clearance. Most folks start getting pretty nervous if the piston/cylinder clearance is 0.006" or more (for general riding - racing would be different). Let's talk after you measure the piston skirt, fore-and-aft right near the bottom of the piston. Then compare the piston skirt measurement to the cylinder spigot measurement (your "XA" dimension).
Ed

[givergas]

i had a physical that morning and all's well maybe that helped me focus. here's the piston measurements

[Bullfrog]

Sorry it has taken a while to get back on this topic.

wwpistonB.jpg (78.15 KiB) Viewed 3600 times

The dimensions in the yellow high-lighted area are the ones which count (hey, there is a "flyer" - just throw it out). As you can see there is 0.018" clearance - wayeeeee worn out. So it either time for a new piston in the same bore - or bore to the next over-size piston (or more?).

The Wombat piston/bore is nominally 56mm (2.204"). So, if a new STD piston was actually exactly that diameter you'd have the following clearance 2.212-2.204=0.008" . . . which also falls into the category of "worn out" in terms of clearance.

So, it looks like time for a bore job on this engine.
Ed

[givergas]

please don't be sorry ,just being able to tap into your vast knowledge is worth more than i should be permitted too. so if i may ask, what is the next best size piston i should be looking at to get bored out to on this engine ? so with the 0.018 clearance 20 over would clean it up very nicely where a 10 over would be cutting it close, again im guessing im spending somebody else's money and i can only twist his arm so much. i told him what i would do and were looking at all options thanks ...albert

[Bullfrog]

For several reasons, I would recommend contacting one of the well known/well respected Hodaka engine builders for a bore job.
1. They will have pistons on hand. When the bore job is underway, they can "shoot" for clean-up and proper piston fit at "1st over-size". If the bore cleans up at that size, there is no reason to keep removing material from the cylinder and they will set clearance for the "ten over" piston. (NOTE: Rumor has it that no one is making Hodaka cylinders anymore, so boring to "2nd over-size" just because you already bought that size of piston might "waste" a bore.)
2. If they have to keep going to 2nd over-size, they have the piston for that and will set up clearance properly.
3. Hodie experts already KNOW the proper clearance for the cylinder/piston combo -- you won't have to come up with that info to feed to your local bore shop.
4. It may be a minor hassle to ship both ways . . . but you'll have extreme confidence in the cylinder and piston "fit" when it comes back.

My 2 cents (and reporting what I do).
Ed

[givergas]

thank you for all the help and now i know what direction i have to go. your last post is exactly my thoughts. i sent the top end from the "burned up basket case " to hodaka dave and it came back damm near new looking and with out worries. im going to print out these last couple of posts and present my argument one last time if it fails to convince my friend this is the right way to go im done he can pick it up and proceed on his own. my grandson and i have put a LOT of work into this project and it would be a shame to walk now but its the right thing to do. thank you for your 2 cents......albert

[viclioce]

Albert. Are you saying that you’ve done all this work & the bike ISN’T Yours??? And after all you’ve put into it, he wants to cheap out on the rebuild? This sounds like some mental deficient! Maybe he should just sell you the bike for what it was worth before you started fixing it up!

And if that price is more than $250-300 I would tell him, whatever you think is fair, but you’ll deduct your cost of labor for all the work you’ve done, plus the cost of paint, supplies and anything else you purchased to get it as far along as it is now!

Then make it your grandson’s Wombat 125!!!!!

[givergas]

yea sounds good victor but he's been footing the bill the whole way, has not cost me anything i just did it to help out and to see if we could pull it off it was/is a nice project for us. we learned a lot. in the end i think he will come around hes a farmer they no how to spend money...

[thrownchain]

Just tell him it'll last longer and perform better if done right. Farmers don't mind spending money as long as the benefit is there.

[viclioce]

Well then I guess he must be a friend of yours. Just let him know he’s spent a lot of money to make it “Look Pretty,”. But if he wants it to run, it needs a complete rebuild. Great way to travel inexpensively around the farm. But remind him if he doesn’t plan to use/ride it, your Grandson would love owning/riding it!!! Victor

[givergas]

soooo after all this he calls sunday morning and wants to know if i want to buy it . seems he has 4 old tractors that are restored and a couple of old trucks and 3 motorcycles that dont get driven around like they should and he dosnt want to see this wombat just sit around other wise he would of left it where it was so im glad i put the time in and fixed it up right. couple of take aways.. trying to do the right thing and help a fellow out paid off, if it wasn't for him i wouldn't of used my measuring tools . and the cylinder is in the mail to hodaka dave so instead of dragging this project into winter its all most done . were , grandson, and i are ok with that . i must live right...albert

[matt glascock]

I was really hoping that bike would end up in your stable, Albert. They are great enduro bikes and a whale of a lot of fun as an around-town zipper. Sweet.

[viclioce]

Good for you Albert! Glad you guys are ending up with it! Victor

[givergas]

thanks were looking forward to riding it . another good thing is that he did all the leg work to get a title and license its good to go

[matt glascock]

OOh...even better! Getting plates for these Hodies can be a real hassle if you have to go the bonded title route.

[givergas]

its pretty easy here. i read the story's lots of night mares out there, where im at the DMV is 4 lady's in a room at the court house that are very help full, they got there act together some times theres a 3-4 person line most times not. you bring in a bill of sale and 4 pictures of the bike from both sides and front and back and the engine and frame numbers your title is in the mail. when i was getting the title for my B+ i had some kind of question that she did'nt know the answer to she said she would get back to me and, about an hour later she calls and explains it to me, i complement them every time im in there, i like to reward good behavior

[matt glascock]

Nice Albert. Our titling process is not that slick but at the same time a far cry from the draconian system my brother deals with in Massachusetts.

[givergas]

so after goofing off and traipsing around for a couple of weeks then trying to get stuff done around here before the cold weather kicks in and waiting for my helper to get home . he was doing his own traipsing around , we got the new bored out cylinder and piston assembly installed.and all parts back on , this afternoon it fired up and idled very well, sure was a nice sound. couple of more heat and cool cycles and Monday after school he will come over and were going to take a few laps around the yard to see how it shifts and runs in general. lets hope the snow melts and it drys out by then .....albert