Primary gear removal

[Cruisermar]

Hi guys, I've got a 93B Rat engine I'm working on. The kick starter doesn't seem to be engaging something inside. When I turn it around it will spin the primary gear and counter shaft but the crank rod doesn't move. So I figure I have to split the cases to see what's going on. I've got most everything off and just waiting for my case splitting tool to arrive but I can't seem to budge the primary gear off the main shaft. The nut came off easy enough and there's no rust. Granted the engine hasn't been apart in 40+ years, but I just can't seem to figure out what's holding the thing on there. I've tapped and pulled (lovingly) to see if it just needed to be broken loose and no luck. I hosed it down with PB blaster just in case but I'm wondering if I'm missing some other step to getting that off? Any tips or tricks from the pros who've run into this, or any other advice for splitting the cases?
Also wondering if a crank pulling tool is advisable? I don't want to spend the money if it won't fit a Hodaka, or if it's unnecessary to get the case halves properly put back together. I'm looking at the Tusk model, same as the splitting tool I ordered.

Thanks!

Marlin

[TheBevman]

Cruiser, I’m realatiy new to Hodakas but have rebuilt 3 and I’ve never had to use a case splitting tool. Once all the case screws are removed, Trans is drained and barrels removed a few light taps was all it took. I use a hammer and a 1” x 2” scrap bit of wood and tap the on the thicker parts of the case. I’ve also had to heat the cases a time or two with a heat gun in the winter, since my garage isn’t heated. As for the primary gear, I’ve had a few stuck but heat and oil have always worked for me.

The problem your having with the kickstarter slipping is common and well documented on the forum and does require the cases to be split to replace the kick roller retainer. It’s a thin metal piece that is worth upgrading to the hardened option if it’s in your budget.

I know there are others, more experienced that myself that will chime in. Good luck.

Bev

[taber hodaka]

I take the washers off, screw the nut on flush, lift up or pry up gently on the gear, hit nut/shaft with plastic hammer.------------- Clarence

[Cruisermar]

Thanks for the advice Bev I’ll give that a try. I saw some reference on this forum to guys resorting to torches to attempt to gets cases apart so I thought I’d be foolishly optimistic in thinking I wouldn’t need some substantial assistance in getting the cases apart. Or perhaps I just know how my luck with these things tends to be. As far as the kick roller retainer goes, is the hardened version something I can pick up from Terry at Hodaka Parts or is that an aftermarket thing?

[Al Harpster]

There's no need for a crank removal tool.

The kick start problem could also be the "ratchet" looking thing or "multi lobe cam" thing on the kick shaft.

I hope not. This may be an expensive piece to replace.

Primary Gear...... I'd try a heat gun rather than a torch, first. Maybe a gear puller if you have one and if one can be fit.

Here's an old idea for separating cases. This and a plastic hammer or hammer with block of wood will do.

[thrownchain]

Go to the tool thread, see the threaded rod between the cases to split the cases, works good and cheap. Yes the improved retainer is available thru Terry or Socal Hodaka. And as long as you're in there, give serious thought to replacing the seals and gaskets.

[taber hodaka]

Remember to check the shaft I will not use a pitted shaft.---------------Clarence

[TheBevman]

Cruiser,

Terry does have them available, here's the link: http://hodaka-parts.com/item.asp?cID=0&PID=6550

I highly recommend it. Every Hodaka I have had kick starter slippage issues when I got them. On my Ace 100 dirt bike hadn't been ran since the '80's and the only things I found that could be responsible for it being parked was the kick starter slipping and the wrong slide installed (it indexed 180 deg out.) The seals still held vacuum and pressure. I tore it down for peace of mind and the only other thing it has was a corroded mag side crank bearing. All in all I got off cheap, around $200 in parts, hardened kick roller retainer, seals, bearings, gaskets and sealants. I already had a spare stock slide in my parts stash.

Bev

[Al Harpster]

I'm sorry Marlin, but I may have misunderstood your kick start question.

Did you say turning the kick shaft turns the gears but not the crankshaft?

The clutch has to be engaged to drive the crank with the kick shaft.

If the clutch is off, you're not going to get kick start function.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

I ASSUMED you were having problems kicking the engine over when it is assembled with full compression.

This is a rather important distinction.

I want to be sure any Free Advise I give is on target, or at least not a goose chase.

I may have missed the boat here.

[socalhodaka]

Here’s the upgraded part on the right and OEM on the left. Over time and abuse kicking the tangs on the OEM spread then stop engaging. The upgrade you can see is very robust.

[socalhodaka]

And the cases must be split to fix.

[socalhodaka]

If you want the heavy duty part contact Diane at [email protected]. $38 plus shipping

[viclioce]

I will only use the HD kickshaft bearing retainer. Victor

[Cruisermar]

Al,
I'm wondering if I've not described the problem adequately. This wasn't a completely assembled motor to begin with. I picked this up as a spare to work on. When I got it the clutch cover was off as well as the clutch. Head was off and cylinder was on but not bolted down. No piston attached to the crank rod. Primary gear, counter shaft, etc. were all still attached. So when I pushed the kick stater through and only the primary gear and counter shaft moved I figured I wouldn't just be able to hook everything back up and it would kick over. Hence the splitting the cases. Does that still sound like a kick roller retainer issue? I think given the feedback on this topic it'd be worthwhile to change that out anyway. I did order a bottom end rebuild kit from Terry so if I'm going to be in there anyway I might as well replace those things. I'm not terribly mechanically inclined so I'm hoping that when I get in there it'll be fairly obvious what the problem is and how to fix it. Somebody sold me on the "if you can paint by numbers, you can re-build a Hodaka engine". Here's to hoping they're right.
Marlin

[thrownchain]

Won't turn the crank without the clutch installed.

[Al Harpster]

In your case you can't be sure there's a problem with the kick start system.

The Ace kick start system as I know it can show failure ONLY if the clutch is installed, engaged and meets the resistance of compression.

You won't know if you have a kick starter problem untill you install a clutch, piston ,cylinder, and head. These will put the load on the kicker.

It will slip or not slip once assembled.

IF you split the cases & you're new to this take a load of pictures as you proceed. You may need them to put it back together.

IF you split the cases before testing the kicker as noted above you'll be in wondering mode. " I wonder if the kick shaft and roller cage are good enough to put back in".

Nothing wrong with that if you decide to proactively replace the kick shaft and roller cage.

Several have said the roller cage is the weak link.

On mine it was the kick shaft. The "ratchet' surfaces were deeply pitted.

Do nothing untill you have a copy of the Hodaka Workshop Manual.

It's essential...... Well, I think it is.