New, Old member back with question

[Rusty]

Hello all, I live in Ohio I was on the old forum, but fell off for awhile. Finally got the hodaka out this year. 68 ACE 100, sent the stator plate off to Roger Lippiatt while I did some other stuff. He replaced my points and condenser and rebuilt my coil. Well she ran like a top and then I started having problems. It idles fine and then when I put it in gear and ride it's fine for a bit then it starts to cut in and out intermittently sometimes backfires and then bogs out and dies. It'll start back up but just does the same thing. I've cleaned the carb, put fresh gas and filter, reset timing, checked air filter, new plug, took off exhaust and "cleaned" it. I'm at a loss, I'm missing something. The plug is a little oily around the thread, but is a nice brown on the tip. I'm a novice at trouble shooting but am very comfy with a wrench. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

[Pep]

Boy, that sounds a lot like a condenser - they usually run a little longer (until things heat up more) - like 10 minutes, before acting up.
Sounds like you've eliminated some other likely causes - might be worth just swapping to a new condenser. It's possible that the one in there got a little too hot on replacement, or who knows, maybe it's defective?
Might be something else, but worth thinking about replacing. It's not hard, and you can totally do it yourself. You'll need a flywheel puller and soldering iron (and a new condenser).
Other folks might have better ideas, but the partial running, backfiring, and re-starting (with carb, fuel, air checking out okay) sounds like a condenser.
On the other hand, you might give that needle jet a look - with enough wear, it will make the bike run rich at midrange - but consistently rich at midrange.
Hope that helps, stay tuned for better advice
-Laurie

[Rusty]

Thanks, update...Took off the flywheel just to inspect points even though I wouldn't think they'd be an issue. The contact on the point arm side seems to be completely gone? What would make it wear out that fast? It's been like a month since new points. Ran it maybe 10 20 times. I'm guessing this is my issue. I have a local motorcycle shop. deals mostly in street bikes but they do have a motorcross area. Can I find a suitable modern or vintage point from a honda, yamaha etc so I can avoid ordering online right now. Have a vintage gathering this weekend. Would like to get her going.

[Rusty]

although it seems I found my culprit still would like to hear some ideas of it failing so fast. Thanks!!

[Pep]

I'd think about just ordering a 'tune up kit' from Paul (points, condenser, plug) - might ship it quick enough to get it in time. Cheap and guaranteed to mount and work.
Not sure if other points will work, I'm sure someone out there has the answer to that.
I don't know what would cause point wear like that - sounds weird. Also doesn't seem like the bike would run at all that way.
-Laurie

[dcooke007]

Rusty, not sure if you can find a set of like kind points locally but the points may not be the cause of the problem. The condensor is still a very likely cause of the point contact failing prematurely. Needless to say with this condition points and condensor should be replaced and make sure all your connections to the points, condensor and stator are in good condition....especially the ground wire to the stator plate. I "think" it is a blue wire with ring connector. As old as some of the parts we are using are, it would not be surprising to come across an out of spec / failed electrical part...even NOS electrical parts. I myself have no reliable way to test condensors and to the naked eye one NOS condensor looks as good as the next. Also as Pep stated look for evidence of excessive heat at the condensor solder joint. Keep us informed.
Danny Cooke

[hodakaguy]

Thanks, update...Took off the flywheel just to inspect points even though I wouldn't think they'd be an issue. The contact on the point arm side seems to be completely gone? What would make it wear out that fast? It's been like a month since new points. Ran it maybe 10 20 times. I'm guessing this is my issue. I have a local motorcycle shop. deals mostly in street bikes but they do have a motorcross area. Can I find a suitable modern or vintage point from a honda, yamaha etc so I can avoid ordering online right now. Have a vintage gathering this weekend. Would like to get her going.

The whole point of the condenser is to protect the points when they open. It sounds like your condenser was \ is bad.

[Rusty]

Thanks as stated. I sent the stator to Roger he replaced the points and condenser. Not to say the condenser couldn't fail again. The solder joints look solid. I guess I will contact Roger and see if he will send me new points and condenser. Bummer since I paid him to do it while I did some other repairs to save time and now I'm going to be doing it anyway.

[Rusty]

Thanks...well I guess I just found out what the condenser is for

[Pep]

Roger does BEAUTIFUL work - and can sure build a fast engine! I'll never know a fraction of what he does about mechanics.
Like Danny said, it's possible NOS condensers can be defective, and impossible to know until it's used.
Also, take a close look at all the wires on that stator - sometimes when mounting, a wire can get shoved over just enough to contact the crank shaft or something else, causing wear through the insulation and a short and ignition problems.
At least it's all quick and simple!
-Laurie

[racerclam]

Yes the condenser give the current that normally flows through the points contacts to charge the ignition coil a place to go and be absorbed . With out the condenser the current would just jump the gap and not allow the magnetic field built up in the coil to collapse to induce voltage to create a spark. The discharge of the condenser also encourages the coil induction process. A bad condenser creates inconsistancy in this process and the mis fire occurs. Also if the rubbing block on the points get worn down or adjustment slips narrowing the gap excessive arching will happen and that will cause metal transfer of the points and they will dissappear as yours did. Always put some lube on the piont cam in the flywheel .

Rich

[Rusty]

Thanks! I'm understanding the condenser as a capacitor, because thats what it is right? I used to fix and make guitar pedals so I understand that caos have a life span. Usually 10 yrs or so. Yes Roger is awesome and a pleasure to talk to. I was doing other things like putting on chain, tires, light, blah blah so I figured I would send the stator off to save time. Just sucks that I have to do something I paid for by myself again anyway. When I could of done it in the first place. Oh well not Rogers fault and hey I learned something!! Will call Roger today and see if he will send out some new parts. thanks all.

[Rusty]

Hi all, Received the points and condenser from Roger yesterday. Great guy...popped them in set them, no spark!!! AHHH Well I don't have a flywheel holder tool so I jimmied something up. Big mistake I'm guessing. I pulled it back off and looks like I scraped both coils on the stator. I was so upset at myself for not being patient. My friend has one, but I couldn't wait. My only guess is that this is causing my no spark problem??? Agreed? Anyway to test if they are damaged to the point of being the culprits? Now time to spend more money on a stupid careless mistake. I wanna ride

[Pep]

Another thing to test - quick and easy - is the primary ignition coil (mounted on the frame, below the tank) - assuming this model has that type of primary. Just in case your stator is good, and the primary coil is the problem (or a problem in the connection between the wire and spark plug cap)
Get a voltmeter reading between the spark plug cap and blue wire; and then between the blue and black wires - the reading depends a bit on the model of coil, but in my 100 manual it says the neighborhood of 5000 ohms and 1.6 ohms respectively (with a 923008A coil). For a 923008, it says 4800 and 0.75
If you're not getting a reading there, or the numbers are way off, that might be the problem? Sometimes there's corrosion or a broken connection between the cap and wire, so cut and replace may be the fix.
If you have a shop manual, all this stuff is in there, including tests on the stator coils.
Hope that helps.
-Laurie
Also, this clutch holding tool is really handy for the flywheel, primary, and clutch - it's adjustable, so works across many brands of bikes. It locks like vise grips and it has two different jaws (round and triangular) - you can find them pretty much anywhere and they are relatively inexpensive. Nothing like the right tool for the job... http://www.bikebandit.com/motion-pro-cl ... p_b07w_wcB

[Rusty]

Thanks, I do have a manual. I will look in there for the tests must of missed it. I funked them up pretty good and I had good spark before. I actually had a new spark plug wire put on the coil. I checked the connections at the blue and black. Looked like the bullet jack could have been touching my tank so I taped them and rerouted them a little. Thanks all. I'll get it figured out, especially with all the generosity in the hodaka community! I'll keep you updated.

[Rusty]

Hello, Just received a whole stator plate from Bruce Young at Hodakaparts.com He offered one off line if I paid shipping. Some great hodaka people out there. The wires were cut short so I will be soldering and cleaning and putting the new points and condenser I got from Roger tonight. I did get a crank oil seal from Roger and put it in last time. When I popped off the stator it was almost popped all the way out. I know you are not supposed to press it all the way in, but I'm pretty sure I pushed it in fairly far until it just had the curve of the lip popping out. Seeing as this is something hidden behind 3 parts I'd like to know the proper depth so it doesn't pop out again as I'm sure it will leak oil into my shifter case and also cause some other damage. Thanks all!!

[Pep]

Hi Rusty, a displaced left crank seal will cause an air leak - much bigger problem than an oil leak. Not sure what the age was on the seal you removed, but over time, they can stiffen up and dislodge easier than a new pliable seal.
Others may disagree, but if a seal has blown out, I'd be inclined to replace it with a new one.
It shouldn't sit flush, but I can't give you an exact measurement - definitely not below flush.
Be sure the case surface is free of any oil residue - use some carb cleaner or something to get it clean and dry. I've used a little bit of gasket maker - Three Bond or Permatex - to coat the outer edge of the seal and help things stay nice and seated.
Glad you got the new stator - things sound close!
-Laurie

[hodakaguy]

I just went through this sitting flush business. The truth is if you measure the distance between the top (outside) bearing surface and the top of the oil slot machined into the bearing surface, the new seal can be either flush or not. Mine sits flush because there is sufficient space to allow the oil slot to work without the seal blocking it. IF THIS IS NOT CHECKED, DO NOT set the seal flush.

I will say, if a thin seal is used and set flush, there might not be enough contact to hold the seal in. This is just my thought on the subject though.

[Rusty]

Hello Pep, It was brand new Roger sent it with the points. Argh its always the little things. I pushed it back in and it went in crooked. Took me forever to get it out. I managed to make a finite tear on the inner part. So question is, did I ruin it? It's where it runs along the crankshaft. What are the signs of an air leak?? Running away idle? How is it worse than an oil leak. I'm good with tools, fixing making, etc. I want to have a better understanding of how everything works though so I can up my trouble shooting skills. I have another Ace I think I'm going to dive in and do a rebuild to get a look and feel of the insides. Ahhh shucks pep, read your post wrong. I got the bugger out and sprayed carb cleaner and put it back in unfortunately when I came back in to read your post about the gasket sealer you meant the outside that contacts the case and not the front. Soo once I get it running I guess I'll have to pull it all off and make sure it stayed in. Again if someone can tell me the signs of air leak. I believe a runaway idle is a sign I've read. Thanks all if the rain holds up ought to give a report today.

[Pep]

Yes, a classic air leak has runaway revs - when it's bad, you'll know it - the revs go to the moon and make your head spin. If that happens, a lot of times the kill won't work, so throw the choke on - usually that's enough to kill the engine. Don't try to yank the spark plug lead off, unless you want a new hairstyle (doesn't always work anyway). If the choke isn't killing it, get the front wheel against something, hold the brakes, and put her in gear to try to stall the engine (not ideal, but will work) - don't try that with a 450, trust me.
Intermittent leaks can be trickier - erratic revs or mimicking rich conditions in the carb. Damage via seizure can be a result - much more costly than replacing a seal.
Those seals are what? Less than $20? Cheap insurance to get a fresh one, and no need to split cases to replace it.
If you haven't been in one of these engines, you'll be surprised at how simple everything is
Look up the forum threads on leak-down testing. Always good to check the engine for air leaks before running it in.
Sounds like you're making good progress, with the seal and ignition sorted, that little Ace will probably hum along beautifully in no time!
Keep everyone posted - lots of experienced folks on here with great advice - I learn something every time I visit the forum.
-Laurie

[Rusty]

Okay, got her fired up. My float is sticking or not set right dumping gas and flooding out the plug. Gas coming out exhaust port. Ran fine, but still had the same problem with the on off staggering,then dies out? It will restart after a minute or two. it seemed though this time it only happened when I road it hard. I'll tell you why. While I was on my test ride my throttle cable snapped. So I had to just hold the cable in my lap and ride one handed pulling on the cable!! that was fun, but I had to ride it more carefully and mellow and it didn't seem to do what it was doing before. I'm at a loss, soo flooding, broken cable, still having hesitating on off power (I'll clean the carb again) and my valve stem is wonky and I got a flat!!! hahahha. Not sure where to go next. New points, condenser, re soldered all the stator wiring which was a nice used one from Bruce Young, new points and condenser from Roger Lippiat. Thanks All

[taber hodaka]

I never start an engine I am not sure of with out a plastic handle screwdriver handy, to kill it. Clarence