Ace 100 No Spark Troubles

[brad100]

Hi friends, been lurking on here for about a week after I had recently picked up my 1971 Hodaka Ace 100 and decided it’s time to post. I picked the bike up last week for a whopping $100 here in Denver, CO and have been steadily working on it. Missing a brake lever, the air filter, and a battery- everything else is there, including the tool box. Was stored in a barn for the past 25 years. I am having an issue addressing the lack of spark, while also not having a battery. Everything else on the bike checks out, minus timing (if it’s off) and spark. I have cleaned a very gunked up gas tank and carburetor, replaced old fuel lines, put in a fresh fuel filter, cleaned petcocks, replaced all fluids minus the suspension, and gave the whole thing a decent bath. I have a fresh NGK spark plug in, poured a cap full of transmission fluid in the cylinder head before cranking it over, and the engine was delightfully freed up. My Hodaka did not come with a key, so I have the ignition unplugged from the harness, and unplugged the black side of the dual black and blue wire that is located under the gas tank next to the ignition coil. There is also a blue wire attached to the wiring harness near where it connects to the ignition that I have read to be the grounding wire (blue=ground), and I hold it on the frame of the bike when I kick it over. No spark. There was a hairline opening on the gear box case where an old gasket had failed, and it seems that moisture may have gotten into the magneto side. The coils show small signs of corrosion, as well as a few screws in there. I have cleaned it the best I can with WD40 Electronics Cleaner, but I do not have my hands on a flywheel puller yet so I haven’t gotten in there totally. I’m wondering A) Does it sound like I have my wiring right for a “hot-wired” test start?, B) Do I need a battery for spark?, and C) Any comprehensive tips or tricks for tackling the magneto? Electronics are not one of my strengths. I’d be willing to PayPal or Venmo a few bucks to someone who makes a video on a Hodaka Electrical 101. I’ve attached some pictures of the dirty bike before I went to work on it, more pictures will come once the damn thing starts!

[Bruce Young]

Brad100, great find, and price was realy right. Now that you have started into restoring it to ride, I may be able to help with missing parts and pieces and act as a sounding person as to where you can get more info as you go along, there are a lot of great Hodaka people out there in the Hodaka world that will help you thru this, but for now give me a call and I will try to get the project heading in the right direction, Bruce Young Hodakapartsidaho.com 1--208--571--2823. Thanks

[thrownchain]

If I read that correctly you unplugged one black wire from under the tank, make sure the one you unplugged goes to the kill button and not the points, if you unplugged the points wire you're working a lost cause. Also clean the points to get a good contact.

[givergas]

welcome just as important is shutting the spark off . ive been working on mine and took it for a ride with a screw driver to turn the pilot air screw and forgot to put the rubber cover back on the carb, when i stooped to make a adjustment the throttle cable got pulled out of the carb when i turned the handle bars and if i didnt have a way to turn the spark off it might still be burning. have fun....albert

[BrianZ]

You don't need a battery to get spark. There are two wires going to the coil, black and blue. Black is ground and blue is coil primary. They are both connected via a two pole connector, so unless someone has modified the wiring you shouldn't be able to disconnect just one. Post a picture of the coil and wiring and the good folks here can probably help you out.

Brian

[brad100]

I appreciate all of the replies guys, thank you very much! Killer group. I’m going to attach a few pictures of how I have my wiring set up, but I’m 99% positive that it is an issue with the points seeing as there is a healthy bit of corrosion. Will try to get my hands on a flywheel puller tomorrow and get in there. Can’t wait to get this toaster tank on the road. Pointing to what I believe is the blue grounding wire, and the under the tank picture shows the black side of the wire unattached with the blue wire still in tact for my “Hotwire”.

(Cleaned the points when I went out to take pics of the wiring. It now appears clean and to make a good contact. Attached pics of Points too. First picture shows it at T, second at F.)

[BrianZ]

If I remember correctly, the black wire needs to be connected to make spark. Connect the blue and black wires normally. The ignition switch works by shorting the black wire to ground in the "OFF" position, so unplugging the switch will allow the motor to run. The trouble is you will have no way to shut it off.

Brian

[brad100]

Thank you for the reply Brian. I will report back later today after I plug that black wire back in and give it a few kicks. I still don’t have an air filter, so I planned on starving it of air by putting my hand over the back of the carb to shut it down. I’m rocking two flat tires at the moment, so I’m just interested in hearing it run before tires and a pricey OG air box come in the mail.

[rlkarren]

Black is the HOT wire. Blue is ground. Both must be connected to get spark.

To diagnose sparks issues, simply disconnect the 4pin connector near the key switch. This isolates the ignition circuit. Make sure you have a kill switch or some way to kill the engine in case it starts and goes into runaway.

[brad100]

Does the fact that I have the keyhole off of the wiring have any effect? The reason I ask and not try to reassemble is that I dropped one of the small balls (heh, resembles a ball in a bearing) that was inside of the keyhole assembly that seem like part of a connection and lost it on my porch. I have the other one! But if the keyhole assembly is vital, one won’t do me good. Pictures so we’re clear. And one of my Hodaka Station

[brad100]

Also, and I’m learning here fellas, if I put my hand over the air box hole on the carb, will it “kill” the engine? Or will me having a hack wiring job cause spark to still exist, and I need a way to figure out how to stop the spark? Thanks in advance for your helpful feedback!

[rlkarren]

As long as the engine is turning you will have spark. This spinning magneto creates the spark. So you can starve the engine of air but you’ll have to continue to do so until engine stops running completely

And yes, the ball is necessary it acts as a detente between the switch positions. Otherwise, the key will just turn freely.

[givergas]

when you put your main switch back together, shall we say "ball bearings" of the same size as the original ones should work, i had trouble with the springs when i put one together. the two on top of the ball bearings are the same size but the next two are different, see the picture, it makes a difference...albert

[brad100]

Appreciate the help guys and Albert, thank you graciously for those pictures and the tip! I think a new ignition is in my future. I went a little “flathead screwdriver happy” on the keyhole at first in my excitement, and a new ignition with a new key isn’t out of my budget for the project. I will search the interwebs and get my hands on one soon. In the meantime I will try to locate a “ball” for my keyhole assembly and give it a shot. If having that assembly put back on provides a “ground” or what have you, that may be my issue. Mine is just hanging from my harness like in your first picture, but unattached at the white square connector.

[matt glascock]

So long as the "white square connector" is unattached, the keyed ignition main switch is removed from the ignition circuit and the bike will run. As previously stated, you have to have an alternate means of stopping the engine. Beware of certain described techniques such as popping the clutch in 2nd gear with the bike idling (unnecessarily hard on the drive train and suicidal in a run-away engine incident). I tried opening the enrichener circuit on the carburetor to "choke" an engine I was working on that was revving out and it didn't work so I reached down and ripped off the spark plug cap resulting in a top-10 get-off with the added feature that the bike wasn't even moving - nasty jolt - like 7.62 zillion gigawatts. Wear insulated gloves. The safest technique is to temporarily wire in an intermittent "kill" switch at the level of the ignition coil. I've done it a few times and if you are interested, I can describe the process. Takes five minutes and is easily reversible.

[Al Harpster]

I doubt the key switch is part of your spark problem if you've taken it out of the circuit as you indicate and as others have advised.

A flywheel puller is going to be a must have. The points may be able to be cleaned up to function.

Taking the key switch apart shows real daring. I never did that.

But I do have a "good" spare I will send to you no charge if you want it.

Contact me at [email protected] with your address.

The thing is doing me no good sitting in my basement. Somebody with guts enough to disassemble one can have it.

Again, the switch is most likely not the culprit if you've taken it out of the circuit.

If you can find a copy of the Hodaka Workshop Manual, buy it.

[brad100]

Al, how incredibly kind of you! I will send you a message with my address, but I would like to PayPal you a few bucks if you’ll accept. While it was a daring, albeit rookie move to disassemble the key switch, that was not my issue. It was the points! After a thorough cleaning, I got it to kick over and idle for about a collective 5 minutes over 3 different starts. My jet needle is slightly bent, and the whole throttle assembly at the carb seems “sticky”, so a replacement throttle cable, needle, and another thorough carb cleaning are next on the list. Saw a good bit of white smoke from the exhaust, but nothing out of the ordinary for a first start in 20 years. Felt good, sounded good, revved good after a few minutes. Just wanted to thank you all for “kickstarting” my brain and helping me tackle the pesky electrical! I’m sure another question will arise, but for now, I’m placing an order for a Hodaka Workshop Manual and hell, maybe even a Hodaka t-shirt

[Bruce Young]

Brad100, when you are ready to replace the Ign. Switch, give me a call we have pre-owned units at reasonable prices, that will get you going, but we need to find out which of the three units made you have so we can match up and get to you one that will work properly. Bruce Young 1--208--571--2823

[viclioce]

Hodaka Keys are getting harder to find. If you go to a local locksmith, you can get a Y11 pad lock key that will fit your ignition. Take your ignition switch with you and they can likely key it while you wait! That’s what I did. It was going to take a trip there anyway to have a Hodaka blank cut to fit and you can get the Y11 at just about any locksmith! Victor

[Al Harpster]

No compensation needed for the switch, just mail me the key back if you don't need it.

I'll include what I believe is a "good" needle jet and jet needle for the B+ VM20 CARB.

Just email me your address. [email protected].

Join the Hodaka Club for $24 and we'll call it even.

I think, and I'm right, that guys that join the Hodaka Club should get parts help from members that can.

[matt glascock]

Very nice, Al.

[brad100]

Al, good Lord, I can’t thank you enough. I spent the better half of the afternoon searching for a replacement needle locally in Denver and had no luck. Could not find it on eBay or anywhere for the matter. I will send you my info to your email in your post. I’ll have a copy made of yours and send you the key back, like viclioce said, I hear they’re hard to obtain. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’d say joining the club is an excellent trade. This is a really special group, huh? Feeling really blessed with this project, knock on wood! Today I replaced my throttle assembly, got some grips, mirrors, a brake lever, a battery that the shop is charging overnight, and an air filter. Starting to at least LOOK roadworthy!

[brad100]

Another newb question, but I’m starting to think this may be a DPO issue. I got a fresh and perfectly fitting battery in the bike, but I’m not sure of what is the positive wire. I know that the blue wire that I have pointed to above is my ground, and therefore my negative wire. I can’t seem to locate the fuse on here to track down the positive wire. Here’s a picture of my mess. Index finger is touching blue wire going to negative battery terminal.

[Bruce Young]

Brad, give me a call, and I will lead you to sites and more info to help you with needle and jets and wiring info, and switchs, and keys and etc, Bruce Young Hodakapartsidaho.com I agree with Al, join the Hodaka club and it will open up a whole new world of info for you.