Oil Leak at Counter Shaft

[JackM]

OK, I know this subject has been discussed before, but I can't find the answer I'm looking for. I'd like to know if the spacer that goes over the countershaft, into the seal and sets behind the sprocket is supposed to have a small groove around its circumference? Both my old 97 motor and this 97 motor have the same small groove. Is this from wear or is it supposed to be that way? I don't know if spacer is the right name for that part, but both spacers have the same groove in the same location. Thanks. P.S. The part is called a secondary sprocket collar.

[thrownchain]

Most I have seen have the groove, but the ones I have seen are used, so that may not help to answer your question.

[Bullfrog]

A new spacer will not have the groove. Wear causes the groove . . . and allows leakage past the seal at that location. Note that the countershaft sprocket nut must also be tight to prevent leaks. The nut holds the sprocket tight against one end of the spacer, and the other end of the spacer is held tight against the inner race of the ball bearing. These are metal-to-metal "seals" . . . which seem to not leak as long as the countershaft nut is snug.

Ed

[JackM]

Thanks, Ed. I knew that you had written about this somewhere, but couldn't find it. It was a slow leak when the bike was sitting on the triangle stand, but when on the upright stand, no leak. When I pulled the collar out, much more leakage. Good to know that the groove should not be there. Must be a common problem. Thanks.

[Bullfrog]

Problem? Or a standard wear part?

Ed

[Joe Ormonde]

I got so tired of oil leaks in between the countershaft sprocket and spacer that now I seal it up with Ultra Silicone. It makes it murder to remove the sprocket BUT I have ZERO oil leakage. That`s the place that I always found my leak. I have a couple of those ACE90 Race spacers with the O Ring and special seal. Still, Ultra Silicone works the best for me! Joe Ormonde.

[JackM]

Joe, I didn't want to glom up the works down there, so I ordered a new seal and collar from Terry. Its a more expensive fix, but the bike will be better off in the long run.

[Joe Ormonde]

Nothing like new parts! Still, I use Ultra Silicone in between the sprocket and collar. One more thing guys and gals: IF your countershaft sprocket keeps coming loose the chances are that your bike is missing the chain guard causing the chain to get caught by the tire. Trials tires not so much so but Knobbies that are SUPER CLOSE to the chain catch the chain and basically side loads the sprocket and loosens up the nut. The ACE 90 Race Collar Kit works great, BUT the seal is rare and hard to find. The collar has a larger O.D. and requires a 28x38x 5.5mm seal. I have 2 kits and am looking at them while i`m hammering on my keyboard. Joe Ormonde.

[Darrell]

A new spacer will not have the groove. Wear causes the groove . . . and allows leakage past the seal at that location. Note that the countershaft sprocket nut must also be tight to prevent leaks. The nut holds the sprocket tight against one end of the spacer, and the other end of the spacer is held tight against the inner race of the ball bearing. These are metal-to-metal "seals" . . . which seem to not leak as long as the countershaft nut is snug.

Ed

Are there torque setting for the CS nuts (I know there's none given for the 250s anyhow) or is it just seat-of-the-pants tight?

[Joe Ormonde]

That nut is (It didn`t strip so it must be good) ! Seriously, my books have no specs for it. I would say somewhere from 250 to 350 inch pounds of torque is my personal Torque Range. Joe Ormonde.

[Bullfrog]

Joe,
I take it that 250 - 350 in-lbs is your experienced guesstimate of how much torque you apply to the countershaft sprocket nut. Would you mind describing how you go about applying that much torque to it? I don't think I've ever managed to get one that tight. Have you ever stripped the threads on the nut?
Ed

[Joe Ormonde]

Oops!!! I SHOULD have posted 100 to 150 Inch pounds!!! 150 Inch Pounds is around 10 Foot Pounds as you know. Don`t know what I was thinking. Thanks for pointing out my blunder! I never stripped one yet BUT 250 Inch Pounds would probably do it!!! Joe Ormonde

[Joe Ormonde]

Oops!!! 150 Inch Pounds is just about 12 Foot Pounds!!! 1 Foot Pound is 12 inch Pounds! I need more Coffee! Joe Ormonde.

[JackM]

It may be too early to tell yet, but after two days, the new oil seal has stopped the leak. I had to use the old spacer as the new one I received was a tad too long, not allowing the washer and nut to go on. Also, the new spacer was a very tight fit, and I had a time getting it back off. You would think that parts like this spacer (secondary sprocket collar) would be a standard size.

[dcooke007]

Had a little free time today and thought I would offer my solution to this concern. I bought this very large channellock style pliers many years ago. Big pliers are like big hammers....handy when used appropriately. I have used this method when assembling engines on the bench with no damage or difficulty. Fairly sure could be used with engine in frame also.

Pliers are positioned to get a good grip on the gear. Gear teeth are hard enough to not sustain damage if gripped securely and not allowed to slip when tightening nut. This is an 03 Wombat case half and other models may require gripping gear a little differently.

Pliers adjusted for one hand operation and held in left hand. Assuming you are right handed.

Torque wrench held in right hand and nut torqued to 250 inch pounds. Feels right and never any damage to nut or counter shaft. Just as a frame of reference the clutch nut torque spec is 250 inch pounds and that shaft is tiny compared the counter shaft.

Spacer is usually in this condition when removed from an engine with a few miles on it. One end flat / undamaged and the other side as pictured.

The ridge needs to be removed by lapping on a flat surface with sand paper assuming the seal surface is in good condition and the ridge height is not too tall.

[hodakamax]

Ah ha!

[viclioce]

Danny! Thanks for the great idea! I used my channel locks the same way to hold the countershaft sprocket & it worked just fine. They weren’t as large as the pair you pictured but still did the job! You’re my hero! Victor

[dcooke007]

You are welcome Vic.
Really just a Clark Kent type of guy.

[viclioce]

“Really just a Clark Kent kind of guy.”

Not to me! You’ve taught me more than anyone else about these bikes & I am eternally grateful! Victor