Oil Leak

[viclioce]

OK. New input! It turns out the leak is not coming from the counter shaft seal. I removed the cover for the fly wheel and there was oil inside THAT cover! So I’m guessing it’s leaking at the left crank oil seal.

I’ll have to pull the flywheel & ignition/lighting coil frame and see. But I guess I’m finally getting to the bottom of this leak!

I don’t remember the installation of this seal, so I’m assuming it’s just being absent of memory of that particular step! But I assume this is a seal which can be replaced like the countershaft seal.

Are they by any chance the same seal, or are they different? I see on the RT parts list that they have different part numbers. I ask because I have a couple of spare countershaft seals. Let me know! Thanks! Victor

[viclioce]

Update! I also found a loose case bolt. The lower right one when looking at the left side of the case. Loose enough that maybe oil could weep its way around it. Put a couple dabs of blue Loctite in the end of the screw & put it back in, tight.

I have cleaned around the Seal and will keep the cover open for the rest of the afternoon with the coil plate & the fly wheel off, to see if it continues to leak. I’ll report back tonight! Victor

[viclioce]

Man. I just hope the case itself isn’t leaking. This is the side that the cast area for the bearing seat broke out and I had to have it aluminum brazed. You can see the brazing bead on the outer portion of the bearing seat. Fingers crossed that it’s just that loose screw or the seal. Victor

[olddogs]

Bad news is the crank seal is not the same as the transmission output shaft seal. The good news is that the 125s and all the newer 100s use the same crank seal. It can be changed by removing stator plate. Are you sure a leaking petcock is not dripping gas/oil on the top of the case, where it can make it into the mag cover.

[viclioce]

Yep. Petcocks are always turned off. The color and consistency says it’s definitely oil! And since the mag cover doesn’t have a gasket, it slowly drips to the floor.

There was oil all over the inside of the mag case. About 2-3 tablespoons worth. So, I’m hoping it was working itself out of the case where the loose case bolt was. It’s not leaking fast and a lot. Just enough to leave like 3 drops in a 24 hour period. So, fingers crossed. I have a clean white paper plate under the suspected area! Victor

[thrownchain]

If you're leaking motor oil and not 2 stroke oil, it's not the left side crank seal. Possible it's leaking out past the screw, but if the case halves were sealed correctly it shouldn't happen there either.

[Bullfrog]

Thrownchain is right. A crankcase leak is now a primary question mark. Any leak which allows oil to leak "out", could progress to allow air "in". Additional air leaking "in" to the crankcase will contribute to lean conditions and most likely, engine damage (seizure). A pressure test is recommended.
Ed

[thrownchain]

Just for giggles, see if the oil may be running across the bottom of the motor from the clutch cover. Wouldn't explain the oil in the cover, but the clutch arm O ring tends to leak after some time.

[viclioce]

Yeah. I already checked the clutch side. No indications of leaks from that side. Besides how would it leak oil from that side into the mag cover???

There was definitely oil inside the mag cover. It’s been open now since 1:30 p.m. no more oil leaking out. I will probably put the stator plate back on and the flywheel, and button it up and ride it for a while to generate internal pressure and see if it forces any more oil out of the seal or somewhere else.

So button up, ride, remove cover, flywheel & stator plate and inspect again! I’ll report back after tomorrow morning as it’s raining and there are flash flood warnings in place for at least the next hour!

I’d like to be able to do a pressure test, but I still don’t have the needed items to build one. Any suggestions to be able to jerry rig one together? And all the seals are brand new.

More to come...... Victor

[viclioce]

OK. I’ve been out to check the oil leak situation again. It seems there was just old oil of some kind purplish blue in color & not the oil I have been using, which was coming out from the mag cover. I cleaned this section around the crank last night with carb cleaner to see if it would show signs of additional leaking. So there were a few drips of this blue/purple oil diluted by the carb cleaner, as well as some brand new clean oil which dripped off the bottom of the case, closer to the right side.

I’m going to drain the new oil & then check to make sure there is no breaks in the clutch cover gasket. I believe I still have a spare if there is a leak on the right side.

There is a small triangle shaped space just above where the lower right screw for the mag cover screws in. Possibly this bluish purple stuff cane out of there after spraying carb cleaner into it. I’m also going to check the color of the two stoke oil I’ve been using to see if this is a top end leak into the covers. I’ll try diluting the two stroke oil with carb cleaner & see if I get the same or close to the same color.

More to come soon....... Victor

[viclioce]

I wasn’t aware of an O ring seal for the clutch lever. I’ll have to check that out when I pull the right cover to inspect the gasket. Victor

[viclioce]

OK. The Yamaha 2R HP 2 stroke oil is, in fact, a dark purple. So I apparently have some kind of premix leak into the mag cover! That explains the purple oil stains.

So I’m guessing this is an indicator that the crank seal is actually leaking? Yes? No? Maybe it was premix that leaked into the cover from disconnecting the fuel line numerous times above the mag cover? It may have happened after this last removal of the fuel tank, leaked its way into the mag cover and the slowly leaked its way out, because it got thicker as the gas in it evaporated.

I’m going to try & find this new clear oil leak. Seems it only happened after I brought the oil level back up to full on the dip stick. Victor

[viclioce]

OK. Found a tear in the clutch cover gasket! Right in frontjust above bottom level (see pic). Damn! That was a brand new gasket!!! Just enough of a break to cause a very very slow leak on the right side & let it run across the bottom of the cases and drip on the left side, especially with the bash plate on!

New one going on now! Victor

[viclioce]

New gasket is in on clutch side! Thankfully I had ordered a 5 pack my last parts order so I had them on hand!

The only thing I can’t figure out is what caused the gasket to break at that spot. But I can see completely how leaking premix from the fuel lines when removing the tank could cause the premix to enter the mag cover where the ignition wires come out of the case at the rubber spacer!

So it looks like it may have been two fold. Premix leak into the mag cover from removing the tank, & a tear in the clutch gasket.

A new paper plate under the bike now, with the oil back in the tranny! I’ll let it sit and see if anything else drips! Victor

[thrownchain]

Ok we're back a step or two, if the oil under the cover is purple and you use purple 2 stroke oil, then crank seal leak jumps back up. If the motor oil you use isn't purple, then we're back to the crank seal. The fact you found and corrected the clutch side leak is good, but that wasn't putting oil under the cover as you have said before. Pressure test is the way to go.

[Bruce Young]

This broken or split gasket that Victor should be a lesson to all, even new gaskets can tear, split, and etc, "even new" lots of time that is overlooked. The better engine builders seem to recommend some light coating of grease on both sides of gaskets before mounting. That gives the owner one more time to inspect the gasket before putting on bike. Do not take new gaskets for granted, I have been also told by two very talented suppliers of Hodaka Parts that many times they have found 50 year old paper gaskets dried out on shelf and split or break sitting in the box. Just be double careful. Bruce Young

[viclioce]

I don’t think the gaskets I’ve been getting from Bill/Dan & now Terry are NOS gaskets. They look like just new gaskets. But since I haven’t seen old NOS gaskets I guess I can’t be sure. But it seems they would be labeling them NOS if, in fact, they were not new gaskets.

There are enough sharp or sharp-Ish edges in the clutch alone which could tear a gasket, and this was torn in an area where the clutch is very close to the edge.

Thanks for the grease tip Bruce! I hadn’t thought about doing that, & it would also hold the gasket in place much better than just using the 4 screws! Victor

[viclioce]

Looks like Olddogs hit the nail on the head! After cleaning, repainting & installing the mag cover and reinstalling the shifter cover assembly yesterday afternoon, I went back out today at 1:15 p.m.

Roughly 24 hrs. later ther was no oil leak, but there were traces of a premix leak which seems to run down the coil wire insulation to the rubber stopper between the mag cover and the left side case!

I know its new because everything was clean & dry when I buttoned it up yesterday afternoon.

No more oil leak from the case, just the equivalent of about 5 drops of premix on the plate, with the wet surfaces as indicated above.

But at least now I know the 2 left side case seals are working properly!

So, I guess I’m going to order replacement petcocks! Thanks again, everyone, for your insight & guidance. Victor

[viclioce]

OK, New question. Given the Road Toad fuel cocks, what parts in them wear to cause leaks?

I do have some spare, NOS white fuel cock valve inserts. If I replace those, would it likely stop the leaking? Just curious because a pair of fuel cocks cost about $75. Let me know! Thanks! Victor

[Bruce Young]

Amendment to my last post about NOS or new gaskets supplied by most Hodaka suppliers today, they all have their supply of new freshly built replica gaskets, most do not ship old gaskets unless they are inspected carefully. The present Hodaka parts suppliers and builder across the country are very reliable source,s for proper gaskets and supplies. Keep them going. Don,t be afraid to buy their gaskets and I am sure if one tears or breaks they will have an understand ear. Bruce Young Hodakapartsidaho.com

[taber hodaka]

without greasing the gasket, it will stick partly to the engine and partly to the case and in removing it will tear the gasket. I grease both sides ----------Clarence

[viclioce]

So, I’m going to pull the fuel cocks and disassemble. I’ll replace the white pieces inside & see if it makes a difference. Are there any o rings or other items inside there which could need to be replaced? Victor

[rlkarren]

Local Motorcycle shops probably have templates for Hodaka. Our local Honda/Yamaha dealer does. They can do all the gaskets except head and exhaust for each of my 90's, 100's, and 125's. Your local shop should be able to do it too if they have a gasket cutting machine.

$0.02

Roger

[viclioce]

Roger. I am not sure to what you are referring. I was asking about fuel petcock rebuilds. What gasket are you talking about? Victor

[viclioce]

OK. So I got out to the garage after a busy day today. I pulled the left fuel cock off my Model 99 Road Toad tank.

It was a bit dirty down inside the brass fitting. Cleaned that well.

Then I removed the screw holding the valve regulator in place. As I pulled the regulator out, BOING!!!! What the heck was inside the fuel cock between the body and the regulator that would launch out of there never to be found again? I thought it was one of the white plastic pieces, but evidently this fuel cock doesn’t use the white pieces in the photo below.

So can any Model 99 tank owners tell me what might have been in there? A spring is the first thing which comes to mind, but, I didn’t find any springs in the direction I saw something fly.

Anyway, I replaced the rubber O ring on the regulator and put it back together, but the regulator now seems loose compared to before. So I have a clean plate under her again, but I feel like I’m missing something?

And I don’t want to be a dummy and take the right side one apart unless I absolutely have to do that. So.....

Ideas??? HELP!!! Matt?? Bueller, anyone? Victor