Road Toad Lighting Issue

[danshale]

Hoping for enlightenment on electrical system for this (99) Toad. So head lamp and battery are good. I replaced battery, turn switch, kill switch and main key assembly. Tested and good are fuse, capacitor, horn, and regulator per ohm testing. went through nearly all wiring bullet connections and seated. Wires look uninterrupted. Issue is the gray and brown from rear taillight, and all four turn signals not ohm test continuity from inside socket. Lamps are good. Any idea what the culprit part is or how to further pinpoint down. Inside headlamp bucket the DC/AC switch leads were re-soldered with red/bn/gn from with red on AC toggle, gn on DC toggle.

Any ideas appreciated.

[Dale]

I am not understanding your issue here and not sure where to start. So let's begin with your reference to the leads on the Emergency DC/AC switch. I think you have stated it backwards. The green wire is your AC circuit and the red wire is the DC circuit. Under normal operation you want the switch to be on AC position so that the headlamp is not drawing power from the battery.

The AC circuit and DC circuit are two separated systems on these bikes.

The DC half of the system (red) is connected directly to the battery so things such as tail light, turn signals, horn and speedo indicator lamps will work with just the key on.

The AC half of the system (green) only has power while the engine is running. This AC power is regulated (clipped) by the 6v Regulator. This will power the headlamp and the rear stop light.

Maybe this can get you started towards a resolution to your issue???
Dale

[danshale]

Thanks Dale. It was wired backwards and corrected on Sat. but to no avail- actually head light out in DC and AC with motor off. So will keep digging.

[viclioce]

Dan. I’m following this as well. I’ve been working on Model 99 Toads. My Red Toad had the headlight high beam working with a broken low beam filement.

Everything was working & then it wasn’t. I’ve been reviewing the wiring and slowly tracing things. Even replaced the voltage regulator with no change.

The bike burnt the previously working high beam filament, both left turn signal filaments & the 5 amp blade fuse.

I have put all new bullet terminals on the harness, with new insulators, and resoldered, correctly, the wires for the AC/DC switch which had broken off.

And I still have no headlight even with a brand new lamp. So I’m curious to see if you bring it to resolution before I do. I hate wiring, especially trouble shooting issues like this & I get frustrated too easily with this kind of work. If I figure out a solution before you do I’ll let you know what I did to correct my problem. Victor

[danshale]

Hi Victor,

Thanks for the input and I'll definitely let you know if can find a solution. There 2 terminal sets (l and r) on switch so I may test and resaulder wire to see if help if visual inspection of all lamps for good filaments not work. I'm a periodic weekend tinkerer, so may take a few weeks to get progress.

[viclioce]

I’ve been dealing with this issue off and on since last October. I quit when it got cold for the winter. I’m getting back to it again. Going to swap out the turn signal/high/low beam switch with another I have and see if the switch failed as my next move. Victor

[viclioce]

I swapped out my hi/low turn signal switch with no change. Does anyone know if the AC/DC Switch failure could be the culprit? I did have the green & brown wires break loose & had to solder them back on. Pretty sure all 3 wires are in the correct places. DC (red) side works. Turn signals & brake light work with key on. Victor

[gearyoliver]

This is for an 03 wombat but should be similar.
This what I see, no guarantee I'm correct though.
Emergency switch: Red is V+ from battery to horn to emergency switch. Should be 3 reds, from horn, to speedometer light, to neutral light. 1 brown to tail light. 2 green, to dimmer switch,
to magneto (and voltage regulator via splitter).
Looks like in DC the switch feeds power to the brown wire lighting the tail light.

[gearyoliver]

The dimmer (high low beam) appears to only be fed from the magneto (green). Per schematic appears headlight always on when engine running. No connection from battery to headlight.

[gearyoliver]

Turn signal switch fed from flasher (orange), flasher fed from battery (red). Pink for right, grey for left.

[gearyoliver]

Stated issue is grey and brown from tail light and all 4 turn signals no continuity from inside socket.
Ok for tail/ stop socket, blue should have continuity to battery negative with key in on position. This is the return side of the circuit. Brown should have continuity to the emergency switch brown connection. The third wire I show as red/white to one side of the rear stop light switch. To troubleshoot this I would start by clipping voltmeter black lead to battery megative. Then checking for 6v at red lug on emergency switch. Put switch in DC and check for 6v on brown lug. If 6v on brown lug check at tail light. If 6v is present problem is beyond this point in the blue wire part of the circuit which goes to the main switch an then to the battery negative terminal.

For signals in the rear one side shows direct connection to a frame ground. RR grey wire connects to pink which has a tap from the turn signal switch then connects in a 3 way with another grey from the RF signal and another pink which goes to the signal indicator light. Left side is similar but all wires are grey. Start by looking for 6v at red lug on flasher. If 6v is present remove flasher and place a jumper wire from red to orange at the connector. This will push a constant 6v though the circuit making it easier to troubleshoot. Look for 6v on orange lug of turn signal switch. If 6v present then operate switch to right. Look for 6v on pink lug. If 6v present RR light at least should be lit. If RR is lit and RF is not then look for 6v on grey connector of RF light. If 6v is present then problem is most likely in the blue portion of the return path. If neither right light is lit then look for 6v at the grey connector of RR light. If 6v is present then it could be a ground issue at the battery.
I probably overstated my explanation but I hope it might be of some use. If anyone finds me in error please correct my mistake. It's late and I usually screw up at least once before I get things right.
Oh, don't forget to pull jumper and replace flasher.
That's all I got, I'm toast. Off to bed.

[gearyoliver]

Victor,
I think the only way the emergency switch could affect the headlight is if it somehow grounded the green wire which doesn't seem likely. Do you have voltage on the green lug at the light switch with engine running? As a quick test with engine off pull the green wire at the emergency switch which goes back to the magneto. Place a jumper from the red lug on the emergency switch to the green lug. If headlight comes on you aren't getting voltage from the magneto. If it doesn't you most likely have an open in the blue return portion of the circuit. Place another jumper from the blue lug on the headlight to the battery negative post, you should have a light then.
Ok now I'm going to bed.

[matt glascock]

Nifty bit of detective work here, gearyoliver!

[gearyoliver]

Thanks Matt, if it helps find the issues that will be great. Sometimes it's good just to see how somebody else goes about troubleshooting. That's why I tried give a detailed explanation. I find looking for voltage is much simpler than setting out to find an open circuit or a resistive fault. Sure, you still have to find those faults but it's way faster to narrow the search by proving what is good first. Eager to hear what these issues turn out to be.

[matt glascock]

Agreed! Would you ever consider sharing some of your electrical troubleshooting methods with us via a Resonator article? You have an organized and methodical approach to one of the most vexing subjects - electrical faults - we encounter with these bikes and the many things that have happened to them over the decades at the hands of many DPOs. The Resonator is becoming an excellent reference resource now that an index of tech articles has been maintained. Great work!

[gearyoliver]

I am a communication tech. and by no means an expert in motorcycle electric systems. That being said I would be happy to give it a try if I had a definite direction to pursue and I had another person to help make sure I don't submit something incorrect. I usually just break stuff until I figure out a way. That's probably not the best method to endorse on print.

[matt glascock]

Well, it looks like we went to the same mechanic trade school. I had to put my Dremel in a lock box. Now the Captain keeps the key and only gives it to me if I promise not do something stupid with it. I think your methodology is sound and the editorial staff keeps the articles legit.

[Bullfrog]

The Captain almost fell off his chair reading that one Matt. And I have bad news, we may have to use a Dremel and a cut-off wheel to get into the Dremel lock box . . . I think I lost the key! NOTE: I did NOT say that I threw it away. No.

[matt glascock]

That's OK Captain. I can read between the lines. Last time you had to yell at me about my Dremel proclivities, you said "That's it, buster! I'm locking that thing up and throwing away the Key!!" I cried like a girl for three days straight!

[viclioce]

GearyOliver, thanks for the tips! I’ll give them a try! I likely won’t get to it until Sunday or Monday because I’m busier than all get out with Easter Week! But I will report back! Thanks. Victor

[Bullfrog]

As much fun as this is Matt, I'm feeling a little guilty about hi-jacking Vic's search for electrical solutions. (But I did not say that. Mighta thought it . . . but didn't say it. )
Ed

[viclioce]

There’s only 2 green wires left to check, as far as I can tell. And doubling back on a few of the Blue ground wires. Victor

[gearyoliver]

Did I miss Easter?

[viclioce]

Nope! Happy Easter!!! Victor

[gearyoliver]

He is risen!