Market for seat pans?

[Makotosun]

I am curious if there would be much of a market for re-stamped seat pans for the early Super Rat - Ace 100B (and whatever else Uses that pan)

I have access to a person who may be able to do such a reproduction, in steel, with proper clips if there is more than my 2-3 projects?

This would just be the pan - not the foam and cover. Weigh in if you think it would be worth pursueing.

[rlkarren]

It seems there there is plenty of interest but no commitment. I can make the same pans of fiberglass and even thought there was some interest, there was no real commitment but one.

It seems that you have to make a gamble and hope it works out. Much like Jamie McAdams did with the shocks and inside shift covers, (exceptional work, btw). I think what it comes down to is if you have the capital to tool up, make the initial order, go for it. There is always a demand for new, repro parts. I would suggest that seat pans are a good item to reproduce and demand would be sufficient.

I would only ask that your pricing is reasonable. I have 3 project bikes that need a pan and if I can get a steel pan for less than it takes for me to make a fiberglass pan, (relatively speaking since that cost also includes the time it takes to make one), you will probably sell three more.

$0.02

Roger

[Bruce Young]

Thanks Roger, I was hoping you would comment on this issue. I know you also have looked into this and even brought fiberglass samples to Hodaka Days 2017, I agree to all you comments. Retail, Price will be the end issue. I already asked Gary to call me about this let,s see what the outcome is. To you knowledge how many diff pans where there from original ACE 90 to lets say 250 models. And how many cross over from one model to another. Bruce

[viclioce]

Seems like maybe all the Aces & Rats has the same size seat pans. I’m guessing the Model 96 Squirts too? Then I’m guessing the bigger framed Model 99/01/02/03 share sane or similar pans? Not sure about the others. I’m sure someone will jump in to correct me if I’m mistaken.

I know I played heck trying to find the correct seat pan for one of my Model 99s and had to modify one which was sold to me as being correct but wasn’t. Victor

[dirtsquirt74]

I could use a model 92 seat pan. It is a little bit shorter than the model 92 B pan.

Richard Schwarz

[rlkarren]

Thanks Roger, I was hoping you would comment on this issue. I know you also have looked into this and even brought fiberglass samples to Hodaka Days 2017, I agree to all you comments. Retail, Price will be the end issue. I already asked Gary to call me about this let,s see what the outcome is. To you knowledge how many diff pans where there from original ACE 90 to lets say 250 models. And how many cross over from one model to another. Bruce

That's a tricky question Bruce..

All the Ace framed bikes used the same pan. Only the mounting hardware was different. The Ace 90 mounting is different, but the pan is the same. But all the Ace 100's and Chrome Tank Super Rat's used the exact same seat pan and mounting hardware. There were variations in manufacturing, but basically they were the same.

Similarly with the larger framed bikes,(94, 96, 97, 98, 01, 02, 03), they were all the same, (mounting hardware was the same also), except one of these models had a larger lip on the rear, (I forget which one), but basically the same.

The later bikes, 175's and 250's were another seat pan, I think.

Having said that, I think the way to go is to manufacture the seat pans themselves without mounting hardware since there is really only 3 iterations that I'm aware of for Ace 90 - 03 Wombat and users can either use the old mounting hardware or make their own. Or maybe they can also be supplied for additional fee or something.

Another idea is that pan that has the deeper lip, maybe make all of them with a deeper lip and score the steel or plastic or fiberglass where they could trim it to the shallower length if they choose to. This would mean two sets of seat cover clips though. Might be easier to make all three styles and let the user use the old mounting hardware, but have the pan marked where to attach it.

Anyway. couple thoughts jotted down quickly as I head out the door for lunch...

Roger

[Bert44]

I would have said yes 4 months ago. I had to have at least half of my pan replaced in small sections. Very time consuming bending the bits and cleaning up the welds. I would have preferred to buy a replacement. There may be few takers now but there will always be a steady market if they are available.

[budpat105]

I always thought that there would be a market for the model 97/98 air box. Mainly the piece closest to carb.

[Dale]

There is a distinct difference in the mounting hardware between the seat pans on the model 94 Wombat and the 99 Road Toads. The rear mounting tabs are longer and provide fender clearance on the Road Toads. So there are at least 2 styles amongst the large framed 100's and 125's.

[Darrell]

Note:
250SL and 250ED seat pans are different from each other. That surprised me to find that out.

[Makotosun]

Very interesting discussion. If others have thoughts, please weigh in.

I have a supplier that can make exact stampings and add the small tabs that hold the seat cover on. His product quality is indistinguishable from OEM. The process is way simpler if done without the mounting brackets! Those could likely be created separately or a buyer could recycle their old ones? If users had to attach the old or a repop bracket to the pan themselves, would it be less desireable?

I’ll update as I find out more!

I will find out more details hopefully on the next few days.

[Makotosun]

If the pans are the same but different mounts are used, is there anyone who can definitively state that? I.e. Which bikes use the pane of the chrome tank super rat, even if the mounts are different? That would be invaluable info.

[Thunderdogdownunder]

I was after a 250ed pan a while back and managed to find one but it needed a bit of work ..
I was told the 250sl and 250 ed pans were different .. was interested to know what the differences were ?

[rlkarren]

There is a distinct difference in the mounting hardware between the seat pans on the model 94 Wombat and the 99 Road Toads. The rear mounting tabs are longer and provide fender clearance on the Road Toads. So there are at least 2 styles amongst the large framed 100's and 125's.

Thanks Dale. I was wondering if I had spoken too soon.

[DG29]

Would the seat pans be stamped using a heavier gauge metal? For owners that plan on racing their bikes, I'm of the opinion that they would need to be.
I have two 71 Rats and I reinforced both seat pans so that they will hold up if (when) I race them. The seat pan gauge of the metal and the steering head and welded brackets surrounding it are the two Achilles heals of the particular model. Maybe stamped seat pans that are reinforced with welded steel brackets?
Just my .10

[taber hodaka]

A weak point of early Hodakas was the seat pan, they cracked and broke. On my old Ace90 racer, I added a layer of metal wielded above the pan, it will never give me another problem although it is a little heavier. -----------------Clarence

[Al Harpster]

I think Bill Cook had complete seat assemblies built by a "modern" seat manufacturer. He did not have them for the Ace, but they were for late rats and combats.
I think these were $325 for the complete saddle.

As I recall, these had a thermoplastic for the core pan with metal brackets attached.

Paul stannard once had Ace saddles with his new foam and new cover complete for about $350. Not sure the origin of the pan.

You might check with Bill Cook on this, maybe I'm mistaken.

These dollar amounts may give a reference for retail price.

[Bill2001]

I'm not big into restorations, but I've refurbed motorcycles for years. Old barn finds have rusted and broken seatpans and the availability situation cannot improve with time. So the idea of replacement seatpans is a blessing. At $300-ish for seatpan and seatfoam and seatcover and maybe generic DIY bracket material, the price is good.

Go for it.

[thrownchain]

If the pan is basically the same, but the mounting hardware and attachment location is different, you could sell the pan with loose hardware, or for a slight cost weld them up for a bolt on application. And add foam and cover for an extra cost. As the bikes get older, the parts will be needed in the future. Not a get rich quick plan, but a long term investment.

[RichardMott]

I was able to repair my Ace 100 seat using 1/8" x 1" aluminum and metric rivnuts. Drilled and tapped the pan 1/4-20 and used button heat socket heat screws.

Seat before

Seat repaired

[dirty_rat]

In checking the Strictly Hodaka site, it list all the Ace 100 models ( regular, B and B+) and all of the chrome tank Super Rats as using the same seat (Part # 939022). It list a different seat for the Ace 90 (Part# 909022). The price for an entire seat (base, brackets, foam and cover) was approx. $450.

I know the seat pans on the early chrome tank models was a weakness as the brackets were mounted just about in the midpoint of the seat and the back would flex downward and eventually crack the base in the middle. So, for a reproduction, a beefed up base would be a good idea.

[viclioce]

I reworked my pan (Wombat sent with mis-identification) by breaking off the mount brackets from a seat pan with a missing edge. Then I welded them onto the existing 1.3” Wombat brackets, extending them about an inch more. Basically placed the threaded ends on top of the existing ones & welded them together. This gave me the height I needed to clear the rear fender, which was missing with the shorter bracket! Victor

[squid on a 300]

I would be interested in one for a model 93 providing the final cost is not prohibitive.
bob

[SMM]

I need a seat pan for an ace 100. Can not find a seat or pan. I emailed Terry about one or a lead on one. Does anyone have a
source for either a complete seat or pan. Steve

[thrownchain]

There is always a market for most parts, but it’s not a get rich quick proposition, you need to be able to be comfortable with the idea if you make a dozen of any seat pan it may take years to sell them all, or they may all sell quick and the second batch may sell at a much lower rate. We had a similar discussion at HD a few years ago about viability of producing repop parts. You have to realize also your target market is getting smaller as time goes on.