Be Safe!!!!!!!

[SuperRat01]

I just wanted to remind everyone to keep their head in the game when riding your motorcycles. Especially those of us who are daily riders. There have been three motorcycle deaths in my little town in the last three days. I guess everyone has there mind on Christmas and other things this time of year. So be CAREFUL!! I hope you all have a SAFE and happy Christmas. Linc

[matt glascock]

Right on, Linc! I'm going to add a suggestion that will undoubtedly make a few people chuckle. Take an advanced rider safety course. HaHa! I know. I've also been riding since the 70's. I won a free advanced rider safety course in a raffle at the one of the Harley Shops near Pittsburgh where I was living at the time. It was remarkably valuable in that it was chock full of scenaria and strategy, evasive maneuvering, identification and avoidance tactics for anything from distracted drivers to road obstacles and a steady flow of tips to be safer such as monitoring your rear view mirror when you are sitting at a stop light. No matter how much seat time you have, a good advanced rider safety course will have something to offer everyone. Thanks for the timely reminder Linc!

[givergas]

After not riding for a number of years went thru the safety course best thing I could of done highly recommend. Not only fun but they teach you how to ride safe saved my butt a few times again highly recommended

[hodakamax]

I remember the day I almost died. Cruising main at about 30 MPH on an RD-350. Four lane, no other traffic and I'm meeting another car mid block. We're both in the center lanes. Suddenly the diver sees his friends parked behind me and too my right and cuts across me mid block to join them. I can still see his passenger who saw me and was screaming and pointing at me. The driver does a violent turn to my right as I'm only beginning to brake. Clearance as we passed was near zero. What could go wrong in the center of the block? My hands are sweating as I write! I guess I cheated death that time anyway. Whew! Be careful out there!

Just another reminder.

Max

[matt glascock]

I couldn't agree more, Giver! These courses really make you think about keeping safe from a tactical perspective. Having a plan in place for managing road confrontations is likely to be your best chance for a good outcome. When I ride on the street, there is a continuous "what would I do if this happens" game running through my head. Being engaged like that enhances your reaction time and avoidance maneuvering when the moron with his or her face stuffed into a cell phone runs that stop sign.

[thrownchain]

Since my son died in a bike accident back in 2011, the safety course is a pre -license requirement for the grandkids, you want to ride on the road you take the course. In NY if you take the course you can skip the road test portion of the license application.

[givergas]

Sorry for your loss. We need to help the grandkids i would not let my grandkid ride on the street with out it. I would definitely pull rank

[viclioce]

Sorry for your loss Clarence. Tough enough loosing a child, but losing one doing what you love the most must be excruciating!

When my oldest grandson turned 4, he laid claim to my 1987 Suzuki VS700 Intruder! So, I told him he had to learn to ride his Hodaka 125 first! Also set forth he must demonstrate the following. He can power slide around a corner, he can brake slide to a stop and he can go off a reasonable jump and land the bike safely, BEFORE he can get on the street bike & Road ride.

I figure this way, he will be a little more prepared for riding on the road! That moment is soon to arrive! I’ve also been teaching him that riding on the street means learning that you are “invisible” to cagers because unless they also ride, they are only looking for big hunks of metal with 4 wheels, and some don’t always see even that!

Merry Christmas to all here on the Forum! May your projects for the New Year be successful and less costly! Victor

[thrownchain]

Vic, you may have me mixed up with someone else, my name is Dan, and my son's name is (was) Jayson. Lacked 3 1/2 weeks of his 32nd birthday.

[viclioce]

Sorry for the confusion, Dan. I thought thrownchain was Clarance! My mistake!
Peace and Joy to you this Holiday Season! Victor

[viclioce]

If you are lucky enough, try training with a police motor patrol, or, one of their trained members.

I was able to train with a member of the NM State Police Motor Patrol on several occasions. He provided amazing training, the kind you don’t really get in a traditional MC Safety Course!

If you know someone who works for a Law Enforcement Agency, as a motor patrol officer, ask for some training from this person! You’ll be amazed at what this person may pass on to you!

That is all. 10-98! Have a Happy & Blessed New Year! Victor

[matt glascock]

Victor, while I was living in Pittsburgh, PA, I befriended a member of the Pgh Motor Patrol and did just what you mentioned. I accompanied him to their training range and sat in on their very valuable and informative didactic sessions on several occasions. Liability disallowed me to enter the driving course. On one occasion I was present during their training on how to lay the bike down at highway speed. They rode hopped-up HD's - Road Kings as I recall, with massively reinforced engine guards. Still, there is gut-wrenchingly impressive watching a man lay a bike down at 60 MPH, get up, dust himself off, get back on, and do it again and again and again.

[viclioce]

We did excersises in over the shoulder viewing for the next upcoming turn! A real eye opener for me about how much time we spent watching what we were doing in the moment and not enough time looking ahead at what’s coming next! Learning this was a difficult task, because it meant taking your eye focus off what you were doing and looking in nearly an opposite direction! No one could link the turns as set up until we learned to look ahead and let our peripheral vision see the turn we were in!

Quite an experience once you try and successfully complete the excersize! Victor

[hodakamax]

I did several riding schools with Jason and Reg Pridmore. A really good time and lots of valuable safety and survival training not to mention how to circulate not only fast but smooth. I did ride double with Superbike champion Reg Pridmore. Really scary! We actually leaned further double than I had ever done. Shifts and braking were impeccable and gear changes up and down were almost undetectable. All in the triple digit speeds while he blasted through the traffic. Frightening but exhilarating!

One of the reasons I'm telling all of this is that for every track minute there was equal classroom time. Most class time was techniques of braking, awareness, cornering, rider position, being smooth and yes, survival and more. There were no speed limitations and instructors were always present to follow and evaluate you with video and pull overs with helpful tips.

Many lessons learned. I found myself driving my car smoother and I was more aware after this experience. Even my wife noticed it both on the bike and in the family transportation.

What started me writing about this experience is the discussion of laying a bike down at highway speeds or worse. To many of the students this was a big surprise that this is seriously not recommended. The reason is that this is lost braking distance. We were taught to severely brake until the end whether collision or leaving the course. Braking distances are increased dramatically while sliding on metal vs tires and very efficient brakes with chassis weight and weight transfer happening. When you "lay it down" you've "given up" and missed some critical braking distance.

I thought I'd better pass that along as it was several important and valuable things I learned at these schools. A good experience and highly recommended. I should also mention exhilarating! No big cars coming at you in the other lane. Passing on the outside only. As fast as you want to go and instructors to keep you in line. Quite the rewarding and learning experience for sure. The speed part reminded you of the real world vs a training parking lot. Something to think about.

Maxie

[matt glascock]

Maxie, I'm glad you posted your thoughts here. I only mentioned my observation of these motor patrol officers in the practice of laying a bike down for the "OMG" factor. I should have prefaced my comment with the fact that this was in addition to extensive training at extreme braking, maneuvering, and steering exercises and was taught as an additional and necessary skill to master as an absolute last ditch effort to avoid disaster (ie sliding under something) or when circumstances made laying the bike down inevitable so that it could be done with the brain "engaged" to maintain total control of the body when total control of the bike was a lost cause. I laid my first Sportster down at 50mph and I can tell you I was not in control of anything, and I really mean anything . I don't even remember what happened after "OH NO!"

[hodakamax]

I suppose there's a case to be made for leaving a half ton Harley with poor brakes and hoping you take a different path. A large cruiser on it's side may out perform the brakes of that day. A sport bike of today stops with Gs. Our instructors cited cases even at the schools where riders entered a corner and thinking they couldn't make it, gave up and went down with enough braking distance left to save it.

Looking back in my motorcycling career it's a wonder I survived. No training. We didn't start with experience. I see kids buying a superbike for their first ride. All a bad deal as I look back on who survived. Training is a must but certainly lacking even today. I've given up street riding. Bad odds. Something like 30 times more likely to be killed vs a car from A to B. I've made it this far and got the message! Take me to the trails or even the track where I'll be relatively safe!

Becoming aged and looking back on my motorcycling career, I must say the best times of my life were had racing motorcycles. Rough and tumble, kinda like football. No big Buicks going the wrong way. The closest brushes with death in life were on the street and not just on motorcycles. Automobiles have taken their fair share of my friends. The equation of survival is directly proportional to common sense. High risk endeavors can be done in life but training and experience will always move the odds in a more positive direction for the participant. We should mention thinking.

Ok, enough lecturing from old people who actually turn out to have the most experience. Kinda like the saying that there are bold pilots and old pilots, but no old bold pilots.

Be safe out there!

Maxie

[thrownchain]

It's surprising that many pro racers don't ride on the road because of the extra uncontrollable variables such as car drivers and road surface irregularities. They are more comfortable doing 200 mph on a track than they are doing 60 on a road.

[Bill2001]

Great discussion.

When I stated riding again in 2000 after an 8-year break, I took the MSF Advanced Rider course. Best advice I've ever followed. Even after riding for several years, I'd recommend taking the ARC every few years as a refresher. Simply because complacency sets in and you can get soft.

In another MC discussion group, ADVRider, I periodically read the "Face Plant" mishap section. It keeps me on my toes, since complacency sets in.

Ride safe, And keep the shiny side up...

[hodakamax]

I keep thinking about laying bikes down rather than braking. Surely they would have figured that out long ago. Maybe in the past most riding was on gravel or dirt surfaces. Maybe pegs, bars and other protuberances really did slow machines better than brakes of the day or maybe it was a toss up. Maybe humans stopped faster than machinery at least at that period in time and design. Flat trackers in the day had no brakes and you did lay them down when a collision or leaving the track was eminent. Maybe the fans (no small number at the time) perceived it as a quick way to stop. Lotsa maybes here. Maybe it was the invention of real motorcycle brakes that changed (or didn't) the picture of braking method and bad habits were just carried on which I find probable. Maybe it was optional like Matt said, like when sliding under something like a truck or train, hopefully stationary. Maybe a fence would qualify. Maybe I'm wrong (or even right) on the subject. Maybe I should think more on this. Any other crazy ideas?

How did I get off on this?

Maxie

[matt glascock]

Well, its an interesting subject, Maxie. From what I observed at the Pittsburgh Motor Patrol training facility, laying a bike down was approached from the perspective of: 1) when is it the correct or unavoidable tactical maneuver to perform and 2) how to do it with the highest degree of safety possible. Since we started exploring this subject, I did contact my motor patrol friend in Pittsburgh for his thoughts. They are using specially prepared HD road bikes - Electraglides in this case. The motorcycles are modded similarly to a cruiser - hopped up motor, suspension, brakes, etc with the additional and massive engine guard. As part of their ongoing tactical riding proficiency training, controlled laying a bike down is still part of the required skill set. He drew an interesting parallel to another aspect of police work. As part of his requirements, he has to maintain proficiency in the use of hand guns, shot guns, and M-16 type rifles. As he puts it, "Crashing a bike while on patrol is like firing a weapon in the line of duty. You never want to have to do it, but when you do, you need to be prepared so you can do it well."

[hodakamax]

Hey Matt, My last post was somewhat," Tongue-in cheek." (Imagine that!) The more I wrote, the more possibilities came up, some even feasible! In my silliness I may have stumbled on at least a partial truth why we bail or brake. It could even have something to do with deciding on whether to stay on a half-ton Harley in a death spiral. This thing could end up landing on you! Do I want to end up in the final product of this disaster? Yet another question. Even I might part ways in this scenario. Of course the point we've been missing is to not to get into these bail or brake situations. Hey, It's a Safety class stressing prevention and avoiding trouble. Enough I guess. Just getting in the next to the last word.

Maxie

[matt glascock]

AAAAAARGH!!! My wife, on occasion, refers to me as one of those "last word kinda guys"