RT wiring!

[viclioce]

OK Road Toad Gents. I have a brand new, fully charged battery in the Red Toad. There has to be some issue not getting power to the rest of the electrical appliances.

The bike still starts in either key position, key on or key off, & nothing works but the headlight. No turn signals, no tail or brake lights, no horn. I thought I have everything hooked up the way the wiring diagram directs it to be done.

It also makes no difference whether the toggle on the headlight is in the AC or DC position. What am I missing? There doesn’t seem to be anything connected improperly which I can determine. HELP!!! Victor

[Bullfrog]

If the bike will start with the key OFF or key ON . . . the main switch is not doing its job. I'd suggest going to the Road Toad wiring diagram to review the small table which shows which "poles" of the main switch should be connected at each switch position. Use that small table and your volt/ohm meter to confirm that proper connections are being made (and that no connections are being made which are NOT SUPPOSED to be made).
Ed

[thrownchain]

With a magneto ignition, the ignition and lights are separate circuits. First is there a fuse in the power line? If so is it good? By using a volt meter you can trace the harness point to point to see where the voltage is going and where it stops. Or you can use the ohm setting to check the switches for continuity. Take the time to clean the connectors as you go along. On most circuits the voltage will go from the battery to the key switch, and then on to the light switch before heading to the bulbs. Just a thought too, check for a good clean battery ground.

[viclioce]

Clarence. All connections are solid. I cut each and every bullet connector off, male & female, and replaced them all. There were so many that had brittle or no insulator covers that I didn’t want to have anything shorting against any frame or other metal parts. The battery is brand new & freshly charged so it also has brand new connectors.

The big issue for me is proper identification. I did not have these wiring harnesses connected on either bike, from which to make a marked reference, like you can when you start with the bike that is already wired correctly. There was no visual, no opportunity to mark/label connections.

And there is a plethora of duplicate colors. The brake light switch wiring is one that has me a bit confused. There are a total of 3, 2 prong red wire connectors. So it’s difficult to setermine, without splitting the harness apart from its wrap, which are for the brake lights and ehich is the connector for the red to the battery & rectifier.

They all look the same & the harness wasn’t even on the frame, much less connected to anything. Victor

[viclioce]

I have 1 extra switch. I’m going to check out the switch by substitution, to see if it’s a failure in the switch itself. I figure it will eliminate at least one possibility. I’ll report back after the changing of the switch. Victor

[Bullfrog]

While that is a good idea . . . unless the substitute switch is "known good" . . . the substitution may not actually prove anything. ie, if things suddenly work properly - the idea was excellent and the problem is solved. If things still don't work properly . . . we still don't know whether the switch or some other wiring or connector is at fault.

Testing the switch for proper connections with volt/ohm meter (using the resistance function or "continuity" function) isn't difficult and provides solid data.
Ed

[viclioce]

Ed. Here’s an additional question. Regarding the two brake light connections. Are they tied together, or do they have to be linked in a circular pattern by connecting the wire pairs from each brake switch to opposite connectors?

Currently, I have the front switch wires both connected to the pair connector closest to the front of the bike and the rear wires connected to a separate pair centrally located in the harness.

I also don’t know if it’s a correct configuration, but the rear pair is connected by twisting the two wires together and pinching them in a single wire connection with a two bullet female plug. I’m not sure if this pair of wires should be separated or not.

Or could this pair, joined together, be for the battery & rectifier connection? It’s tough to figure out which goes to where since nothing was connected & I couldn’t label the wire pairs as I would have normally when pulling the pairs apart. And I’d like not having to pull the harness apart if possible. Victor

[Bullfrog]

I'm sorry Victor, but there aren't enough hours in the day to type all that would be needed to troubleshoot your wiring even if we knew it was completely stock (and we don't know that).

But I will take a quick shot at describing the brake light circuit. Both switches should have a "feed" wire which brings electrical power from the magneto/battery. That power "dead ends" at the switch until the brakes are activated at one end or the other. When brake activation happens, the switch closes and transmits power through a wire which goes to the brake light - where the power flows through the brake light filament and on to "ground". Functionally, both switches are connected to the same power source AND both switches are connected to the brake light. In that way, activating either brake will turn on the brake light.

There seems to be um, resistance, to digging out the volt/ohm meter to do basic checking . . . so let me try another recommendation. Find a continuity tester which consists (commonly) of a 1.5volt battery powered ice pick with a light in the handle and an alligator clip lead. With this device you can use its alligator clip lead to attach to any old wire and then use the ice-pick point to touch something else. If the light comes on - the two items are connected. With that tool, you can confirm whether or not elecjuicity can get through a given wire to the other end . . . and it is a good tool to identify the "other end" of any given wire. Also a good tool to check the main switch functions.

Tracing electrical stuff requires tracing electrical stuff on-site.

Ed

[Bullfrog]

PS: I've bumped into folks whose brain just locks up at the mere mention of the words electricity and trouble shoot in the same sentence. If any of you are in that group . . . just pretend the electricity is WATER and the wires are small WATER PIPES. Further, pretend that the ice-pick continuity tester injects water and tests to see if it comes out the other end. This sort of approach can work really well to remove fear and confusion from the process of checking to see which wire goes where and what-is-connected-to-what.
Ed

[viclioce]

OK. I don’t have an aversion to testing with a meter. In fact I have two of them & ive become pretty adept at testing. The problem for me, more so, is the fact that I can’t confirm which connections are the right ones.

There are at least 3 red two wire connectors. I have figured out from closer observation of the wiring diagram that the brake light circuit MUST be connected by spliting them up rather than pairng them together. So I can correct this issue. Sometimes the diagram is a bit hard to follow when looking at it from the page to the harness and back & forth and.... well you know what I mean.

I agree with the plumbing analogy. I also am pretty good at plumbing having been trained in it and I have used a similar analogy with other folks.

The reason I asked for comments from those with Road Toads was the hopes that others may have had similar experiences from which I can learn, without doing it the hard way, from scratch. Sometimes a simple answer comes from another person who has had an “Ah Hah” moment dealing with the same kind of issue.

I’ve put a lot of time into this harness, doing the best I could to make sure it has good connectivity, especially at the terminating ends where connections are made. I am pretty sure, based on observation & the fact that the harness was still in place on this frame, that it is the OEM harness for this bike. I did not find any cut or otherwise unterminated wires and did resolder the broken connections for the AC/DC switch.

The only thing I have not done is strip away the wrapper and/or electrical tape holding the harness together. I had been leaving that as a last resort, because it leaves a lot to chance that additional damage can be done to the wires without extreme caution. - Victor

[taber hodaka]

Victor I would suggest taking down the proper wiring diagram to the local print shop and have them expand it out for you, easier to see and just follow it through. A continuity tester would be the way to start, I would think.-----Clarence

[Bill2001]

Good direction to work in, Clarence.
When I started on mine a couple of years ago, the wiring was complete, patched and basically hopeless. So I got an enlarged wiring schematic and built my own harness. The easy to read, markable copy was a help.

[viclioce]

I think I have reached the point where I now have the key working correctly with a different switch today. Also getting sporatic light to the tail light but it’s not staying on. Tail light comes on when it first starts but doesn’t stay on. Think I’m getting closer. But I think I’m figuring it out slowly. Staring at the wiring diagram a lot. Got some general conclusions, which are not at all like plumbing!

This was the problem with not having anything connected to the harness to be able to mark connections numerically like I normally would! Heck! I even blew a fuse which indicates I have power going from the battery to the harness now!

Going to check the brake lights for function and turn signals as well! Fingers crossed!!! Victor

[viclioce]

OK! I have both rear turn signals lighting but not flashing yet & the turn signal indicator lights up with either one. I may switch out another flasher & see if it blinks!

I had the front signal lights connected incorrectly. Who would have thought it’s grey to grey for the left but grey to pink for the right!?! Another Hodaka tradition I guess! But, the front lights are not operating at all yet.

Time to pull the bulbs and check them to make sure they work, or if I need replacements. At least I can now test each one separately on a rear signal which lights up. If the bulbs are good, I’ll check for damage in the grey wires.

On a separate note, are the indicator bulbs readily available at most auto parts store or is that something I’m only going to find at a specialty place? Thanks!

Slowly but surely. Victor

[viclioce]

I did some more checking on the front turn signals. Seems the bulbs work when directly connected to the battery. Is it the kind of situation where the rear won’t flash if the front bulbs are not lighting?

Also, is there supposed to be a separate ground wire for the front turn signals or does it just ground through the clamp to the handlebar, in the same manner the rear grounds to the luggage rack?

The front turn signals are connected correctly, left signal grey to grey in the bucket, Grey to grey for the indicator light, pink to pink for the indicator light and grey to pink for the right turn signal light. There appears to be good connectivity from front to back because the indicator lamp up front lights up with either rear turn signal.

There was a significant amount of rust on the metal of the front bulb sockets. I tried cleaning them and even scraped the inner round portion of the bulb socket with a file. Sill no power to the front turn signals.

Does anyone think the front bulb sockets could just be too rusty to conduct current? I don’t know if that’s possible. If it is, can I change the bulb sockets with std 1156 bulb sockets? Thanks. Victor

[taber hodaka]

Victor do you have electricity to the front turn single bulb?? ----------Clarence

[viclioce]

No. But there is power at the duplex connector in the bucket, which does light the turn signal indicator lamp!

I guess I could pull the reflector off the inside and check to see if the wires are broken behind the reflector. That’s the only thing I didn’t check because it was getting dark and I don’t have sufficient light in the garage. Victor

[viclioce]

OK Clarance. I tested the socket. Put a lead to the power in wire and connected to ground in the lamp housing. Zero volts. I moved the ground connection to another metal part and got connectivity. Not a full 6v but more like 4.32v. So I’m guessing the paint on the handlebars is preventing thruput of ground to complete the circuit. So tomorrow I will sand off just enough paint for the turn signal clamp and see if the circuit can complete on its own. Slowly but surely!

And do you know the answer to my question about if the lights won’t blink if both lights aren’t working? You know as an indicator one light isn’t working? Is that a standard carried through on the Hodies for signal lights?

Or is there polarity for the turn signal flasher? Thanks! Victor

[viclioce]

Yes. The signals DO NOT FLASH unless both bulbs are working on each side! Filed the paint off the bars enough for the clamps to make a solid ground and both left & right, front & rear are flashing! Just can’t post video of them working!

Now to trace down the horn & make it work & the tail light as well. Probably similar issues! Victor

[viclioce]

Light related question!

What are the bulb part numbers for the indicator lamps? Thanks! Victor

[viclioce]

I don’t understand why the tail/brake light wasn’t working! LOL!!!

Have to adjust front brake switch spring tension. Looks like brake lights work now. But it’s staying on because front is too tight. Found 6v tail light bulbs at Auto Zone $5.99 a pair. Victor

[rlkarren]

For the turn signal bulbs; I'm guessing it's a single filament, single contact, bayonet style? Are the pins offset or directly across? I'm guessing it's an 1129 from your local auto parts store. If it's a dual contact bulb, you can use an 1154.

You might find it here: http://www.taillightking.com/light_bulbs.htm

[viclioce]

No. I was looking for the indicator bulbs. But found it and ordered. Couldn’t find them in 6v locally. Thanks! Victor

[viclioce]

So, it turns out that 1. My original wiring harness was “all original,” 2. that my suspicions about the flasher being load based was correct and that, 3. the brake light connections WERE required to be looped and the loop didn’t occur in the harness.

Grounding through the handlebars was easy enough to trouble shoot with the meter. Seems the paint I used in the bars was especially non-conducting. Not sure which paint I used for the bars, but it won’t be an issue on the Green Toad because that bike has a solid aluminum handlebar! Should conduct electricity just fine and no plans to paint it. Makes me wonder what kind of “black” was on the OEM Road Toad handlebars?

I’ve been thinking about doing a write up for the November Resonator submission. And considering this specifically because folks didn’t seem to be able to answer my questions when posed. I’m guessing this kind of documentation isn’t available? Maybe folks just have the option to unplug & label as they dismantle, an option I didn’t have. But hey, tell me what you guys think? Victor