Engine number question

[byarwin]

I'm getting ready to list a 1973, 125 Combat Wombat to the January Mecum Auction, Las Vegas. While gathering the frame and engine identification I noticed the second and third engine numbers appeared to be stamped twice. (attached picture) The J01360 comes out clearly. But it looks like it could have originally been stamped J13360. As you can imagine this poses a problem for the auction. I purchased the 125 sight unseen a few years ago and did not ask for pictures of the identification numbers. My mistake!

Do you believe there's a real problem here or a factory slip up while stamping the identification numbers?

Thanks for any help,
Justus

[taber hodaka]

01360 is about what the serial number could be to match the frame number only off by 80 and seldom, if ever did they match. The engine numbers started at 00001 and frame numbers started at 14501 --------------Clarence

[Hydraulic Jack]

You have an implied question regarding authenticity of the engine number. I don't think anyone is going to be able to answer that question. Personally, I have never seen an engine or frame with an overstrike number, but lots of folks have seen altered ID numbers on vehicles. That would be where the problem arises with the auction house. My question would be whether you have documentation for the bike showing original purchase with both numbers on the paperwork matching the bike as it is, or at least some sort of State official paperwork showing both numbers. Engines were frequently replaced during the life of the bike, and as mentioned, there was no official nexus between engine number and frame number at the time of manufacture.

[matt glascock]

And if you are a true glutton for extreme punishment, have the DMV run a check and title search for the engine number - both the apparent original and overstruck numbers. Even though the frame number is commonly used as the "VIN" number, if the bike was hot at some time, a previous owner may have attached the legit engine number to the frame number in the report. Its unlikely this will reveal anything, but at least you could demonstrate due diligence in the spirit of full disclosure. That might be enough to satisfy the Mecum folks.

[taber hodaka]

Did they ever make 13360 combat wombat engines? I doubt it they started with 00001.----------Clarence

[Hydraulic Jack]

Did they ever make 13360 combat wombat engines? I doubt it they started with 00001.----------Clarence

Hodaka-Parts.com shows the engine number for the J engine starting at 00001, and frame starting at D 14501. Paul used to include engine start numbers on his chart, but all that data was apparently abandoned when completing the "new" chart for the Hodaka Book thing. Didn't do the chart any good. Perhaps if Paul still has the chart he used to use just before the current one, he would share with the group. It was a much better chart. His current chart has errors that can't be explained, although none in the Combat Wombat range that I know of.

As for a J engine in the 13,000 range, no. Only 4,400 Combats were made. The frame number shown would have been the 1,280th Combat Wombat made, so having an engine number of 1360 doesn't sound so far off. The number style and size look right, so perhaps it was an overstrike. At least the digits are the same ones.

[byarwin]

First my thanks to each of you for answering. I do have a file full of paperwork that came with the motorcycle. The owner kept the receipts for almost everything that had been done to the bike over the years. Let's hope there is an original sales receipt in the mix. Being an intended off-road/racing bike I wonder if it was ever registered? The way I hear it. This bike spent most of its life sitting in the back of a shop up in Wyoming. Again that's the story I was given. And it really does look that nice with the original rubber on it. Albeit the tires may hold air they are quite weather checked along with the kill switch.

It is an attention getter in the shop. Maybe it will continue to hold that duty. Thanks again!

[Alberta Mike]

Yes, I suppose it could raise a red flag with the auction house, or a potential bidder. But I've never heard of engine numbers being part of any registration process with the motor vehicles department. Some cars of course had matching VIN/engine numbers from the factory, others did not. I wonder about other bike manufacturers like Harley Davidson, etc?

[matt glascock]

In Iowa, off road motorcycles do have a title. Its different than those titled for highway use, but they are required if the vehicle is to be used on public lands. Many times, these were lost in the shuffle so here, many private dirt bike sales have none. The good news here is that the bike's provenance is not in question, so that's encouraging. Good luck with the auction, Justus!

[rlkarren]

Ye Olde chart from March 2010: (Courtesy of the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/)

[Hydraulic Jack]

Thanks for finding the old chart. Copy saved to my files. Looks a lot like the one on the HP.com site.

[byarwin]

It's all good about missing the auction. In all reality it was an excuse to go up to Vegas and act like the guys from the Gas Monkey Garage. Lose money at the auction and party too much on the strip.

Every one involved on this website and forum rock. You've built a standout community. Thanks for sharing all the information.

[matt glascock]

And the cherry on top of the sundae...you still have a really cool bike! How cool is that?