Same Issue

[taber hodaka]

Well jack after thinking about it, I can agree there needs to be a standard, A hand grip can be many things, I just do mine tight, works for me. No problem for me means riding thousands of miles of trails, 60 plus trophies doing motocross and cross country, no pushing it back, all finished still running. No problem means not having noticeable clutch problems on customers bikes. I have seen clutch problems loose screws and broken screws on clutches. Could be I just had a good Montana grip. The one word that defines problem is Government. I do admit I did not work with the newer hotter hodaka line beyond about 1973, I think I sold in 1975.----- Clarence ----How is my Dog?

[Bill2001]

I looked up the standard torque value for a 5mm bolt, and it is a light approx 5 ft-lbs (56 in-lbs), which is not a whole lot. Wrist is not well-calibrated at this level, but you should be able to reach that with a Phillips screwdriver. Good grunt with a screwdriver, and a moderate grunt with a T-handle or palm ratchet. Not that tight, and not a lot of preload. I'd guess get 'em tight as possible, safety wire them and use dowels to keep things put.

[SuperRat2110]

Still Farting around with this clutch. I was playing around with different shims and at one point when I had everything together without the gasket for the clutch case and it seemed like it was disengaging to where could move the bike back and for fairly easy and without hearing the compression. But once I put it back together it was a different story. I'll keep at it. I got time. It's definitely frustrating but that's part of the learning process I guess. Thanks for all the comments and I hope you guys hammer out a spec on the bolts that everyone agrees on

[Bullfrog]

I just reviewed the whole thread and would like to enter the following comments:

1. Yes, your "cheep" 90wt gear oil could be part of the problem. I'd suggest replacing it with a name brand oil mfgd and rated for use with motorcycle wet clutches. I use Belray. Lots of folks use automatic transmission fluid and are happy with it (I don't). Remove the variable of "cheep" 90wt gear oil.
2. Your very first post in this thread mentioned "new" clutch plates and disks. A couple of questions apply - Were the steel plates flat? Ditto for the disks? Warped plates or disks WILL drag, and adjustments will not get rid of the drag from warped plates/disks.
3. Let's not venture too far out into the weeds regarding the negative effects which result from variations in screw tightness, racking, etc. Some 99%+ of Hodaka clutches work just fine with 1) a "good grunt" hand tightening of the clutch screws (that's how I do it), 2) the clutch assembly will tend to self-straighten as the clutch screws are progressively tightened, so "building in" a "racked" situation is kind of hard to do as you reassemble the clutch.
4. Racers with extremely high-output engines and aggressive clutch fanning/slipping techniques have more problems with screw tightness and "racking" than the rest of us. NONE of that is at issue here. In this case, we are talking about residual clutch drag after applying full hand lever travel with the motorcycle motionless. The factory recommendation is for 3/32" of engine clutch lever free play, so (just for kicks) let's target that setting as you work with your machine.
5. There have been two concepts which have been published which were called "Blue Printing the Clutch". One of them should actually have been titled, "Modifying your clutch to work well with replacement fully threaded clutch screws." The second one addressed the idea of "cleaning up" clutch parts so they would work the way the original designers intended (smooth engagement and full disengagement). It described "dressing" clutch parts (especially burrs on the steel plates and clutch hub) so they would slide through the clutch cage without "digging in".

Summary - I would recommend the following:
Replace the oil as described above. Use shims to achieve 3/32" freeplay at the engine clutch lever (with normal clutch cover gasket in place). If the clutch drag problem has not been cured, disassemble clutch and check for warped plates or friction disks.

Ed
PS: Most everyone else's clutch works, yours can and will too (WITHOUT special modifications).

[Hydraulic Jack]

Ed,

The wandering discussion of clutch dynamics is more esoteric than case specific, and if this has caused the OP any discomfort, I apologize. My thinking is that knowledge is useful in itself, and that the collective is wiser than the individual. The more someone understands about how things work, the better able they may be to resolve issues when things don't work.

In this instance we are all trying to help someone fix a clutch by remote control, which isn't all that easy. Helping him understand how his clutch functions may make the clutch more understandable when he takes it apart again. It is hard to say which factoid will be the one that turns on the light, and I believe that understanding why someone recommends a cure is more valuable than simply telling someone what to do to cure a problem. Something to do with learning to fish....

So perhaps the discussion has been a bit broad, but then, this is a open forum along the lines of a Socratic classroom.

[Bill2001]

Esoteric is good. It broadens the range of the discourse.

[Bullfrog]

Yup, esoteric discussions can be productive . . . and I've been known to describe how to build a watch when asked for the time. However, I just wanted to provide some pretty solid, time-tested recommendations to help the SuperRat2110 solve the problem mentioned in his original post . . . which remains un-solved.

I'm pretty sure the problem will not require special modifications such as anti-racking pins or special clutch assembly procedures in order to be solved . . . so I thought I'd nudge the discussion back toward the direct and practical to help SuperRat2110.

NOTE: Some time ago a well respected Hodaka tuner (not me) had an ingenious idea which goes a looooonnnng way to control "racking" in the Hodaka clutch without modifying any of the parts. A future Resonator Revisited tech article will discuss the concept.
Ed

[Dale]

Still Farting around with this clutch. I was playing around with different shims and at one point when I had everything together without the gasket for the clutch case and it seemed like it was disengaging to where could move the bike back and for fairly easy and without hearing the compression. But once I put it back together it was a different story. I'll keep at it. I got time. It's definitely frustrating but that's part of the learning process I guess. Thanks for all the comments and I hope you guys hammer out a spec on the bolts that everyone agrees on

Don't get hung up on the fact that you can't push it back and forth without hearing compression. It is fairly typical for a Hodaka clutch to not fully disengage the gear train without the motor running. Get your 3/32nds end play and start it up and see what the clutch does.

[Hydraulic Jack]

Racking can be reduced 80-90% by simply replacing the stock screws with over the counter, hardened, full shank countersunk screws. Reason- the shank is larger ( 4.8mm instead of 4.4mm) so the screw isn't as free to wander around in the hole in the steel cover. It is the steel cover that does the most shifting, approximately a millimeter under load.

Is this the problem with the clutch under discussion? No. But it is at least a related issue, and some seem interested. Do all clutchs need pin modification? No. I would suggest most don't. Doesn't make it a bad idea.

I agree with Dale that Hodaka clutchs drag no matter what, and one shouldn't put too much effort into eliminating all drag since it will never happen. If you want to see how much of the drag issue is related to the gear oil, drain the oil and try the clutch. If the drag increases significantly once oil is replaced, its the oil.

Not sure why the clutch would function better without the gasket under the cover as long as the shimmed free play is the same. Here, if the clearance was set with a gasket, and then the same assembly shims and all was tried without a gasket, the freer clutch is attributable to more throw equal to the thickness of the gasket. In which case, it's still likely that the problem is in setting the free play. Try setting free play to a loose zero and see if that makes a difference.

[taber hodaka]

The Socratic classroom does not take things beyond the level of the students? I like my simple clutch without the drag.--Clarence

[SScratch]

Try replacing the clutch cable. They stretch over time and no amount of adjustment will make it work correctly.

[SScratch]

More accurately, they get stretchy, not just stretched. That's why you can't adjust them correctly.